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Author Topic: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+  (Read 1323998 times)

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Offline nlink

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9933 on: Today at 08:54:57 AM »
Hope can get the 46 raw soon.


@Admin,

lately, I could not open the spoiler at all.

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9932 on: Today at 07:02:13 AM »
You should hire some proofreaders a lot of guys would join for reading the chapters early, just make a test for them tho
+1
Yep,
With a little bit of management, that's probably the fastest way to do it  :yay:


Offline _Maou

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9931 on: Today at 06:14:32 AM »
It's not re-translating. More like this guy got lazy and truncated most of the meaning.
You should hire some proofreaders a lot of guys would join for reading the chapters early, just make a test for them tho

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9930 on: Today at 05:59:49 AM »


Sorry, but thats not true!
at max, they are doing one chapter/week

Well, i guess you did confuse clickyclick and Jawz work.
i'm talking about Endling's work.
I took the latest chap on the blog http://clickyclicktranslation.blogspot.fr/
And here are the data.  :megane:

volume 23
chap 7  4/16/2015 03:53:00 am
chap 6  4/14/2015 01:02:00 am
chap 5  4/12/2015 12:40:00 am
chap 4  4/11/2015 12:08:00 am
chap 3  4/10/2015 08:52:00 pm
chap 2  4/10/2015 08:20:00 pm
chap 1   4/10/2015 07:09:00 pm

You can double check it
So it's even less than a chap every 2 days.
And i did mention it, because i wanted to know when Edling would release the next chapter, without pressuring him with my questions.

So, if we are lucky, at the current rate, we can expect
chap 8  4/18/2015
chap 9  4/20/2015
chap 10 4/22/2015

Volume 24
chap 1  4/24/2015
Etc...  :elephantdancef:

Offline Endling

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9929 on: Today at 04:36:07 AM »
It's not re-translating. More like this guy got lazy and truncated most of the meaning.
Some of the sentences are really good. Some long paragraphs, he shortened them and messes up their meaning.

I don't know which lines he did that or not so the painstaking recheck.
Its dull and mind numbing work. I prefer translating.

Offline auels

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9928 on: Today at 02:50:23 AM »
Geez, I have spent well over 20 hours this week doing TL check, reading one chapter over 3 times
and adding about 2000 words to the last 3 chapters.
TL Check is literally taking me the same time as it would to translate a new chapter.

What some say about translation work is true, it saps out all the fun you had out of the series.

Thank you for your work!

I'm just curious though, it seems like you're pretty much retranslating the whole chapter from scratch, so why would you still use the translations that Ser4 is paying?

Offline Endling

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9927 on: Yesterday at 11:49:35 PM »
Sorry, but thats not true!
at max, they are doing one chapter/week

Geez, I have spent well over 20 hours this week doing TL check, reading one chapter over 3 times
and adding about 2000 words to the last 3 chapters.
TL Check is literally taking me the same time as it would to translate a new chapter.

What some say about translation work is true, it saps out all the fun you had out of the series.

Online AzZazell

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9926 on: Yesterday at 09:15:31 PM »
At the moment, il's a new chapter every 2 days, after edit
Sorry, but thats not true!
at max, they are doing one chapter/week

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9925 on: Yesterday at 12:59:31 PM »
By means of luck, is this the website your talking about sir Phil,
https://web.archive.org/web/20140625171416/http://www.royalroadl.com/table-of-content/


Nope, it's http://clickyclicktranslation.blogspot.fr/p/blog-page.html
Translation is finished; but editing is still waiting. I was saying that most of the work was done. But help was still needed to finish it.
At the moment, il's a new chapter every 2 days, after editing and proofreading is done.

But yes, you can get those 4 first chapter of volume 24 on royalroadl.com

Offline Minakou0992

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9924 on: April 17, 2015, 11:52:44 PM »
By the way, is there someone who can give me a link for some summaries...of the remaining volumes. Ummm, coz I'm dying to know some spoilers...like I wanna know what is the latest level of Weed by the way from the latest volume....

Seriously, I wanna wring the neck of my friend when he said about they know already some secret skills of Weed like Life Bestowal and Transformation.

Offline Minakou0992

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9923 on: April 17, 2015, 09:49:02 PM »
And check their website: The volume 24 is translated.


Hello, what do ya mean their website?

Speaking of volume 24, I saw some chapters are already translated in good ones from chapter 1-4 by grisia. (I think).

By means of luck, is this the website your talking about sir Phil,
https://web.archive.org/web/20140625171416/http://www.royalroadl.com/table-of-content/

Offline Minakou0992

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9922 on: April 17, 2015, 09:38:09 PM »
So, if you're interested in becoming an editor, you need to be careful not to butcher the style of the author for the sake of "appropriateness". As a general rule, change only what needs to be changed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it~!


Oh my, thanks for reminding me that...Haha..

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9921 on: April 17, 2015, 03:59:55 PM »
But yea I know, everyone seems to think those machine translations are so accurate.  Quite literally the machines get like three words right out of a twenty word sentence and that's supposed to be usable?  ... They're those sentences that just don't make any sense at all.

Precisely. Myself i tried randomly with a few chap... and i just had to stop. You get around 30 to 70% of the meaning (depending on how you work) max, NOT talking at all about the style of the author, or even the subtle understatment.

to leechers I only have one thing to say, be grateful with what is available or do it yourself.
Relax
The point is NOT to criticize MT. it is to point out that helping with Editing and Proofreading is most certainly more meaningful at the moment, now that we have people who know korean and can translate it... (do NOT forget to thank them through ren...) And check their website: The volume 24 is translated. But, NOW, it still needs editing and proofreading.

What I gave you above is basically the closest thing to a real korean translation short of actually learning the language.  It's just incredibly time consuming doing it this way.  Actually learning the language would be easier than this.

I agree on the fact that : "  Actually learning the language would be easier than this." And it would be more meaningful too, especially if you know a sweet Korean girl or if you want to work/travel around in Korea...



Offline dx0520

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9920 on: April 17, 2015, 08:01:26 AM »
Personally, for what jawz did for vol 22 chapter 8, you kinda have to be place some blame to the community and the statement of how vol 23-24 will be released as soon as vol 22 completes.  As a result, since peopled wanted it to be released faster, that is the result. You got what you wanted which was finishing vol 22 even if the end product was poor.

That's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, the quality and flow was sufficient to understand most of the info, and to advance the main story.

You might prefer something more detailed and near 100% perfect, but to leechers I only have one thing to say, be grateful with what is available or do it yourself.

Offline LMK

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9919 on: April 17, 2015, 06:09:15 AM »
Sorry, please read the forum rules to see why you can't view spoilers and why you can't post in this forum section. Thank you!
hi guys
I brought awesome news for lms fans :4da5b0e8:

There's a new webtoon about lms again :elephantdancef:
it’s 4 strip parody/gag comic based on lms novel!!! The most important fact is, it will be updated everyday!!!!!!

Offline infyquest

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9918 on: April 17, 2015, 05:48:26 AM »
Volume 46 ................ waiting for summaries as usual

Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9917 on: April 17, 2015, 03:23:51 AM »


Hmmm, nice one. but here...

Maybe we can take it off the word "one" since, "each" could be considered as "one", maybe in my sense. (just maybe, okay...)

So, It could be like this...

~Running down the slope of the canyon on his ghost horse, each of his slashes took the lives of the Barits!

I would also have opted to remove the "one" too (since I made those edits) but since LMS's author is a bit long-winded (sometimes to an almost infuriating degree... hey, need to get to a certain number of pages) and the word's presence or absence doesn't really affect the meaning, I just let it slide to conform with how things have been in general.

So, if you're interested in becoming an editor, you need to be careful not to butcher the style of the author for the sake of "appropriateness". As a general rule, change only what needs to be changed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it~! (lulz)



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Offline Minakou0992

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9915 on: April 16, 2015, 10:53:14 PM »
유령마를 타고 협곡의 경사를 달리면서 휘두르는 검에 정확히 생명을 잃어버리는 바릿들!
KT: Running down the slopes of the rift on his ghost horse, every slash of his taking lives out of these Barits!
In a one-to-one context its absolutely right. 휘두르는 검에 정확히 생명을 잃어버리는 would be translated literally as 'the slashing sword would precisely loose lives'.
Me: Running down the slopes of the canyon on his ghost horse, every slashed dealt a precise killing blow on these Barits!
~ Running down the slope of the canyon on his ghost horse, each one of his slashes took the lives of the Barits!

The translation of this is pretty much correct and ddadain's edit are good. The raws makes no mentions of the slope being "plural" it was a mistake on the translator's part.  This sentence is where no one is talking it is just commentary. I feel that the use of "these" should be changed to "the", but I can't explain my justifications of it.



Hmmm, nice one. but here...

~ Running down the slope of the canyon on his ghost horse, each one of his slashes took the lives of the Barits!

Maybe we can take it off the word "one" since, "each" could be considered as "one", maybe in my sense. (just maybe, okay...)

So, It could be like this...

~Running down the slope of the canyon on his ghost horse, each of his slashes took the lives of the Barits!

Offline Minakou0992

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9914 on: April 16, 2015, 09:58:25 PM »
While the translations they do are more accurate, their English (depending on the KTLer) was lacking and seemed like a poor quality translation due to their lack of the English language


Hmmm, may I ask, who did the jobs for correcting the phrases or sentences. Or maybe upgrading the part of it. (I don't know if that was allowed since I'm new).

I don't know if its the job of the translator or the proofreader.

Offline Minakou0992

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9913 on: April 16, 2015, 09:48:22 PM »
Personally, for what jawz did for vol 22 chapter 8, you kinda have to be place some blame to the community and the statement of how vol 23-24 will be released as soon as vol 22 completes.  As a result, since peopled wanted it to be released faster, that is the result. You got what you wanted which was finishing vol 22 even if the end product was poor.


Hi, I'm new here. I know, I can feel your point. But people can't help it, since they've waited so long.

But, anyways, since readers are waiting for the latest chaps to be translate, maybe they could upgrade a new version of that chapter, right?

Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9912 on: April 16, 2015, 09:06:54 PM »
I beg differ on the "poor-ness" of Japanese -> English compared to Korean -> English machine translations~~~ They are BOTH very bad >_<

Don't let the mouthers get you down... A lot of these people are talking out of their asses ._. Not like they've done anything at all (most likely).

Offline DarkD

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9911 on: April 16, 2015, 06:20:52 PM »
Never know.  The reason why people like myself stop without translating more than a couple of paragraphs is because they realize how horribly wrong all their work is.  Then they just look at the whole job as an impenetrable steel wall and all the stuff they've already done as garbage. 

I remember during the volume 19 translations I went on to help edit the English.  I kept reading over these incomprehensible sentences and thinking how obviously wrong the translation was, so I got frustrated and cracked open my translation kit and redid huge amounts of their work.  When the guy came on and saw how different and readable his translation was, he went crazy.  They had a korean come on and look at that chapter later, the parts I didn't do were heavily redone by the korean, the parts I did do he skipped over—almost no edits on those parts.

But yea I know, everyone seems to think those machine translations are so accurate.  Quite literally the machines get like three words right out of a twenty word sentence and that's supposed to be usable?  You can always tell too.  They're those sentences that just don't make any sense at all.  Like the translator just pulled something that sounded english out of his ass and put it in the chapter. 

Offline Haikai

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9910 on: April 16, 2015, 04:45:57 PM »

DarkD don't bother to try to reason people to do that method. Only a few people such as myself actually does it fully in order to get a decently high accuracy while not knowing the Korean language.  And even if it they would actually know about it, they would never attempt such a thing. You should have gave them an "easier" approach where you have people machine translation from Korean -> Japanese -> English. This is b/c cause the online machine translators have more data for Japanese to English translations compared to Korean to English translations.  In addition Japanese is the closest language to Korean.

Ever since last summer with the introductions of web novel translations, translation quality strongly decreased overall as people wanted to make use of machine translations the "easy" way out with only by editing the gibberish into English (though some of the people use background knowledge of Japanese to help with the MTLing process).  The same result can't happen with Korean as the whole machine translation for that particular language is still very poor in comparison to Japanese.

I would also like to add that the quality of what ends up from machine translations are determined on who is doing the translations and how experienced and the method of choice they are using.  For most "noobies", they would do only basic stuff such as getting multiple translators and interpret from the different versions of what they think is correct.   Not got going to mention how "good" editing of a poorly translated chapter can be covered up quite easily and made as if it was a real translation.

Personally, for what jawz did for vol 22 chapter 8, you kinda have to be place some blame to the community and the statement of how vol 23-24 will be released as soon as vol 22 completes.  As a result, since peopled wanted it to be released faster, that is the result. You got what you wanted which was finishing vol 22 even if the end product was poor.

Offline DarkD

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9909 on: April 16, 2015, 03:17:02 PM »
dx, that is ridiculous and was proven utterly wrong in the early days of the gdocs projects.  I don't think we ever fixed the original 7.1 where we used to do that, but it was horrible.  I'm the guy who worked with Japtem before they became Japtem. 

I'm just passing on my knowledge of machine translations.  I used to do them a lot.  My stuff koreans have looked over and said they didn't need to change much.  However, I have no intention of doing them again.  This is my translation of 16.3 and what Japtem came up with using a korean. The method I posted above is actually more advanced than what I used in this gdoc.  So the accuracy now would be even higher. 

Sorry, please read the forum rules to see why you can't view spoilers and why you can't post in this forum section. Thank you!

What I gave you above is basically the closest thing to a real korean translation short of actually learning the language.  It's just incredibly time consuming doing it this way.  Actually learning the language would be easier than this. 

Offline Güney

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9908 on: April 16, 2015, 01:33:34 PM »
@ DarkD, dx0520, Güney

Guys, with all due respect, if you do NOT plan to learn korean (have a korean girlfriend or work there may be ?) why don't you help Endling & Ser4 instead with proofreading and editing ? Obviously, they DO need help.

And we already have a machine translation, which obviously is indiscriminate slaughter and pure butchery :stabby:
(worst idea ever in my opinion, after a tried to read volume 22, chapter 8  :onionfacepalm:).


Ps - Latest edit


Huh? If they do, I'm more than willing to help, but I thought they didn't require it. I might have falsely assumed that though.
Anyway, I'm here if anyone needs me :). Hook me up with a PM ;).

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9907 on: April 16, 2015, 01:17:09 PM »
@ DarkD, dx0520, Güney

Guys, with all due respect, if you do NOT plan to learn korean (have a korean girlfriend or work there may be ?) why don't you help Endling & Ser4 instead with proofreading and editing ? Obviously, they DO need help.

And we already have a machine translation(MT), which obviously is indiscriminate slaughter and pure butchery :stabby:
(first, I tried to read volume 22, chapter 8 with MT, worst idea ever :onionfacepalm:).


Ps - Latest edit (for those who do NOT want to search through our 199 pages :ronin:)
Quote (selected)
Translation (ongoing)
Google Drive volume 1-21, PDF
LMS JawZ volume 21-22
LMS blog volume 23-24 by Endling & Ser4
LMS web archive(table of content)


Automatic translation (finished, but avoid it if you can wait)
GT = google trad ou BT = bing trad
LMS blogspot (volumes 1-45, complete BUT no readable. From the ingame story, you get around 70%, and from the in life story, you get around 30%)
LMS google site (same here)
LMS Dropbox (same here, but word or PDF file)
LMS google drive (same here, volume 45)


Some other stuff
LMS Raw 1-45
LMS lexicon Korean/English
Other translation tool
Author's blog with the world map of Royal Road
Korean Wikipedia (you can find the release schedule plan, volume 1 coming out the 15.01.2007)
LMS BakaTsuki

Offline dx0520

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9906 on: April 16, 2015, 01:13:23 PM »
DarkD, translating one word at a time loses context easily, as evidenced by your lengthy response.

By translating sentences, and having multiple translations done on it, one with a strong English background can then infer and produce a better and more accurate translation.

Granted, accuracy won't be perfect, but flow and sufficient accuracy would be there to enjoy.

Offline DarkD

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9905 on: April 16, 2015, 12:26:55 PM »
imtranslator is how I used to do the very early volume 7 chapter 1 translations.  Even if you go word by word, you'll end up with a 20-40% accurate translation.  Of course, you can edit and guess a bit, but it's a terrible way to translate.

The best machine translation will have you put each word in this
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It's a korean dictionary.  Just plop the word into the empty box, and press enter and look for the english.

Most words won't work too easily though.  You'll need to remove the korean particles from the word and translate those separately.
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Just delete anything off the end of the word from that website. 

Take this for example 친구다 put that in dic.naver it'll give you some hazy results, that's because we didn't enter in the root of the word.  But in the korean listings, it shows 친구.  That's the real root of the word.  Take that, and put it into dic.naver instead and it'll translate clearly as 'friend'. 

Now what about the 다.  Well it's not clear, but I believe it's the korean "to be" verb.  So things like "are" "is" "were" "be" "been" etc.  It'll come up a lot, so memorize that one at least. 

Thus the full translation should be "is a friend"

Then there's also all kinds of verb conjugation to deal with.  The goal with verbs is to reduce the ending back to "다" so plug your verbs into
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For the most part though I don't know how necessary this website really is.  Storytelling is supposed to be done in past tense, so just assume the sentence is being told in past tense and you should be fine for most everything. 

Then there's names.  You can try using this site for the easy way or the glossary haikai posted
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but if you wanna work on new volumes then the names will largely be unknown to the glossary and kawa often glitches out and isn't really that accurate.  I like this website for hardcore name translations
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Remember that things like ㄸ usually means a "th" sound as I recall.  similarly with all those double symbols you see on the second row there.  Also remember that 'ㅡ' is silent and are ignored in the translation. 

As for how to organize the translation, I do like google translate for this. 
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But only do one sentence at a time.  Plot it in and separate each word onto its own line.  Then google will give you translations for each word.  Often what I found was that I'd recognize several of the names the way they were translated "weed" being an obvious one.  If the translation looked right as well, then I could skip going through the lengthy process above.  Google does get it right a fair bit too, the problem is that it doesn't know how to put sentences together.  So anything that's looks odd, put through the process above and eventually you'll have a list of translations for you to put together. 

With the list remember that korean doesn't organize their sentences the same way we do.  We do subject verb object, they do subject object verb sentences.  So you have to keep that in mind as you translate. 

Offline dx0520

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9904 on: April 16, 2015, 10:20:27 AM »
That site isn't that bad. Hell, even I (someone who doesn't know any Korean) is hopeful that we could make some sense of the machine translations with that.
Sure, it'd still be a lot of guess work and deciphering in the end, but we'd probably be able to follow the general story with it.

Right now, I believe that JAWZ and endless are doing up to volume 30. Perhaps it'd be an idea to start with the volumes that come afterwards?
Depending on whether we can get some native Korean speakers to help us out it'd be doable. I could set-up an online environment in which we could all work (FTP + a wiki of some sorts perhaps or Owncloud).
I'd love to hear what the others here think.

If you set it up, I'll help. Start on volume 31.


Offline Güney

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9903 on: April 16, 2015, 09:59:27 AM »
What do people think of this? It uses three translators, and compares them at the same time.

http://imtranslator.net/compare/korean/to-english/translation/#

If we as a community can contribute to a google doc, perhaps we can expedite this.

The real translators, those that know korean, can then read through, edit and correct mistakes.




That site isn't that bad. Hell, even I (someone who doesn't know any Korean) is hopeful that we could make some sense of the machine translations with that.
Sure, it'd still be a lot of guess work and deciphering in the end, but we'd probably be able to follow the general story with it.

Right now, I believe that JAWZ and endless are doing up to volume 30. Perhaps it'd be an idea to start with the volumes that come afterwards?
Depending on whether we can get some native Korean speakers to help us out it'd be doable. I could set-up an online environment in which we could all work (FTP + a wiki of some sorts perhaps or Owncloud).
I'd love to hear what the others here think.

Offline dx0520

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9902 on: April 16, 2015, 07:48:08 AM »
What do people think of this? It uses three translators, and compares them at the same time.

http://imtranslator.net/compare/korean/to-english/translation/#

If we as a community can contribute to a google doc, perhaps we can expedite this.

The real translators, those that know korean, can then read through, edit and correct mistakes.


Offline abangkuraden

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9901 on: April 15, 2015, 10:33:32 PM »
@Haikai, So sorry still have no time to help you on your project.

Hope this edited raw and glossary can help for everyone who TL. It's from vol 1 till 45.
(Note, it's only cover about 10% till 50% of names and places name)

Sorry, please read the forum rules to see why you can't view spoilers and why you can't post in this forum section. Thank you!

gtg 886


This is great... I can make use of this... Thanks.

Offline nlink

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9900 on: April 15, 2015, 07:51:43 PM »
@Haikai, So sorry still have no time to help you on your project.

Hope this edited raw and glossary can help for everyone who TL. It's from vol 1 till 45.
(Note, it's only cover about 10% till 50% of names and places name)

Sorry, please read the forum rules to see why you can't view spoilers and why you can't post in this forum section. Thank you!

gtg 886

Offline Haikai

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9899 on: April 15, 2015, 04:27:53 PM »
Would like to appreciate Haikai's effort in standardization of all LMS translation. :)
@Haikai, just wanna ask if you plan in making epub and pdf copy of the modified/standardized volumes?or just post it in a new blog?

Currently the plan is to replace the translations on the Japtem backup blogspot site from vol 1-17 with the standardized version.  That is my current goal because that is how far I can only edit on a site. 

Depending on how long it takes I could do past vol 17, however, that is up for grabs. Vol 19 was pretty bad...and it wont be just fixing the standardization terms  but fixing the whole translation (which i wont do) 

Also, this is more of a long term goal where it would benefit the translations of LMS where all things are standardized for other LMS TLers.

Offline asaboy

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9898 on: April 15, 2015, 04:04:22 PM »
Hi All. I've been lurking in this forum thread for quite a while. I reformed just this time to thank Enlightened_End, Ser4 and the unnamed translator for all their efforts.

Would like to appreciate Haiku's effort in standardization of all LMS translation. :)
@Haiku, just wanna ask if you plan in making epub and pdf copy of the modified/standardized volumes?or just post it in a new blog?

Offline matricha

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9897 on: April 15, 2015, 11:29:06 AM »
Thank you all for all kind of support... I would encourage you to take your time and deliver a better quality releases.... Sometimes just catching the point is not very satisfying and therefor i wouldnpersonally prefer better grammatically written translation rather than just collection of words....

Offline Endling

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9896 on: April 15, 2015, 11:03:53 AM »
has volume 24-1,2,3,4 chapters, they have good quality...
endling can you please skip these chapters and edit the rest when vol 23 is complete...

I talked with Ser4 about it already and we did that.
Vol 24 is finished and will need to go through TL check. :(



Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9895 on: April 14, 2015, 10:09:23 PM »
Might have a really experienced editor joining soon~
Every time I go back and forth from Korean to English, I get so muddled.
By the end of a 6 hour translation session I can't think straight.


So is that a yes or a no? Lol ?_?

Offline nighthawk

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9894 on: April 14, 2015, 09:40:54 PM »
https://web.archive.org/web/20140625171416/http://www.royalroadl.com/table-of-content/


has volume 24-1,2,3,4 chapters, they have good quality...
endling can you please skip these chapters and edit the rest when vol 23 is complete...

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9893 on: April 14, 2015, 07:19:54 PM »
Every time I go back and forth from Korean to English, I get so muddled.
By the end of a 6 hour translation session I can't think straight.

I can relate to that...  :hot:

Ps - aren't you releasing volume 23 and 24 in one go ?!? Did i misunderstand you ?

Offline Endling

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9892 on: April 14, 2015, 04:18:28 PM »
Just finished reading the 5 chapters released. Definitely needs some touch ups as there are a lot of typos, grammar issues, unnecessary words, editing artifacts (stuff that editors accidentally leave behind while editing), etc. still in the released chapters.

Overall, very good job. I didn't have any comprehension problems... and most of the errors were minor. Still, it's always good to polish things up >:D

(PM me if you find my offer agreeable, can probably do chapter 6 fairly quickly once to-check is done and go backwards from there to sate the ravenous appetites of the readers ~_~)

Might have a really experienced editor joining soon~
Every time I go back and forth from Korean to English, I get so muddled.
By the end of a 6 hour translation session I can't think straight.

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9891 on: April 14, 2015, 11:44:27 AM »
Trust and support is always important. :yay:

( And beside, men are true to their words.  :ichi: )

Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9890 on: April 14, 2015, 11:32:05 AM »
+1
You get my thanks for that.
Support for Ser4 & Endling is welcomed


Oh thank you kindly for the ren~~~ I haven't don't anything yet though so maybe it's a bit premature ;) but if I get the go-ahead, you can definitely expect me to deliver~! >:3


Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9889 on: April 14, 2015, 11:16:57 AM »
quite a few "typos" and careless grammar mistakes... I'd offer to fix JUST THESE
+1
You get my thanks for that.
Support for Ser4 & Endling is welcomed

Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9888 on: April 14, 2015, 11:15:41 AM »
Just finished reading the 5 chapters released. Definitely needs some touch ups as there are a lot of typos, grammar issues, unnecessary words, editing artifacts (stuff that editors accidentally leave behind while editing), etc. still in the released chapters.

Overall, very good job. I didn't have any comprehension problems... and most of the errors were minor. Still, it's always good to polish things up >:D

Favourite Scene: I had a big smile on my face when Hyun-woo and Seoyoon were beach camping and when Weed named his sandcastle "their home" and that cute thing that happened in the end... Yiiii~~~ :3 MY SHIP HAS SAILED!! Bon Voyage!!

(PM me if you find my offer agreeable, can probably do chapter 6 fairly quickly once tl-check is done and go backwards from there to sate the ravenous appetites of the readers ~_~)

Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9887 on: April 14, 2015, 08:46:32 AM »
Currently started reading the new chapters but noticed quite a few "typos" and careless grammar mistakes... I'd offer to fix JUST THESE so once the volume's done, I can archive it into a pdf format spickn'span~~~

What say you Ser4 / Endling? Not offering editing, just proofreading :3

Offline Ryovenom

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9886 on: April 14, 2015, 06:03:10 AM »
Sigh.

I wonder if the readers even care about the translation accuracy.
Most of the time wasted during translation is wondering how to keep it accurately as possible to the raw.
My Korean side agrees to the text but my English side just rebels at how stiff the translation is sometimes.

Maybe after I finish vol 25 I will manage to find a balance.

You dont mind about another complaint.
you translate is very good. :karoke:
Thanks for that.
And Thanks to for Ser4 be Philanthropist for this series.  :banzai:

Offline Mr Phil

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9885 on: April 14, 2015, 03:49:53 AM »
Hi,

Good news !!!
Jawz finished volume 22 and is now even starting volume 30. So, Endling, when will we see volume 23 and 24 online (even without edit ?)

Sigh.
I wonder if the readers even care about the translation accuracy.


No, most of them don't. Why is that ? Because they do NOT understand Korean. What they care about is the joy of discovering the story. So they tend to notice everything which limits or disturb their understanding or their flow during reading. And that's all. Like the wrong use of words, the little incoherence from one page to another, the misunderstanding, etc...

So forget about the Korean expert, who should either translate it themselves or at least help you with the editing. 

Otherwise, from my (small) personal experience, there is NO such thing as exact translation accuracy, at least not for story telling.

In fact, you do NOT only translate word by word, you also take in account the read-ability in the foreign language and the fact that you are switching from one world/cultural context to another.

For example: english to french, just from translating, you get between 10 and 50% more text, and also a different flow in the translated text. Or the use of a metaphor sometimes needs a change to be faithful... Not mentioning the fact that you need to create your own pattern in the new language to display certain words habits/pattern/style the author is playing with.   

So translation is more than just being faithful. It's also fundamentally rewriting/recoding, if you successfully want to export the story and the author style/story telling skills in a foreign culture.

Regarding all those subtle change, obviously a machine is a NO GO. You really need a translator, who is a mediator with his own talent/set of skills.

This being said, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking care of LMS. I can't wait to read volume 24 and 25.  :twinkle:


PS
Quote (selected)
Translation (ongoing)
Google Drive volume 1-21, PDF
LMS JawZ volume 21-22
LMS blog volume 23-25 (soon to come out)
+
LMS web archive(nothing more)

Automatic translation (finished, but avoid it if you can wait)
GT = google trad ou BT = bing trad
LMS blogspot (volumes 1-45, complete BUT no readable. From the ingame story, you get around 70%, and from the in life story, you get around 30%)
LMS google site (same here)
LMS Dropbox (same here, but word or PDF file)
LMS google drive (same here, volume 45)

+ rewriting (on the base of the automatic translation)
LMS Wolfes of Mibu (vol 23, chap 1-4; password: Weed)
LMS blog volume 23, chap 1-5

Some other stuff
Author's blog with the world map of Royal Road
Korean Wikipedia (you can find the release, volume 1 came out the 15.01.2007)
LMS BakaTsuki


Offline ddadain

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Re: Moonlight Sculptor (KR)(Game-novel) Vol.01-45+
« Reply #9884 on: April 13, 2015, 11:43:01 PM »
It is apparent that the Korean Translator doesn't translate the tenses properly.
This, in return, breaks the understanding flow of the reader.

Isn't it instead of 'taking' -> 'took the'

'busy' -> 'who were busy'

However I have zero Korean knowledge so I wouldn't know if he also has mistakes with the meaning itself.

All in all, I think the understanding flow of the reader is the most important than a not accurate vocabulary.

Unfortunately, this is an example of a not-so-proficient editing... Not that there's anything wrong with being a non-native English speaker nor not knowing

1.) Some languages do not actively use tenses (Chinese and Japanese have sparse use of them. I know nothing of Korean but if the other two character based languages say anything, there really isn't many tense usage there). Do not assume all languages are the same... or that they'll fit in cookie-cutter-like with English.

2.) It's better to have a near literal, pre-digested translation of the source text than something that's inaccurate... that's why translation drafts are not "for public consumption"... and that's why every translator needs (an) editor(s). Even newspaper columnists and writers go through a proofreading desk, and they write for a living... ._.

3.) When editing, do not think you are constrained to using the form used in the translation... as long as you do not detract from what the original translation was saying and that the "flow" is cohesive throughout the whole chapter/series, then you're fine (meaning an editor must be familiar with the series he's going to edit)...

4.) Do not second-guess the translator's work... you can only do so when something is contradictory or there is a break in logic. You ask for clarification, but don't use the word "wrong". Translators are gods! They must be revered as such ~_~ Else you piss one off and fine yourself without a translation to edit (OR READ!) [Semi-joke, semi-serious @_@ Translators are "Handle with Care"]

5.) This statement: "All in all, I think the understanding flow of the reader is the most important than a not accurate vocabulary." is wrong. Why?
- Shakespeare's works were done in Early Modern English... For the sake of "understanding flow" (wrong grammar), should we then transliterate it to "Modern English"? Or if the readers are say, African-American, should we then render it in something they can easily understand? [O Romeo, Romeo! Wherefore art thou Romeo? => HEY ROMEO, ROMEO! WHERE UZ MAH DAWG ROMEO?"] >_> Literary works are art themselves... as much as possible, stay true to the authors "style" and intended form.
- So you would rather read something INACCURATE?
=> Editors must be both ACCURATE & ARTICULATE! One must NEVER trade one for the other. This is why editors must be very fluent in English O_O