Funds $17 | Needed $120
Like the community? Enjoy reading manga?
Then click on the small donation banner! Thx!

16%

Author Topic: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?  (Read 19071 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Deni_Em

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Renommée: 0
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2012, 11:25:14 PM »
japanese is a seriously screwed-up language.  as are japanese people.  i never thought that until i went to japan, but trust me, the deeper into it you get, the weirder it gets.  don't do it unless you're ready for some serious brain agony

 :wallface:

IMO, written Japanese, like Chinese and other ideographic systems, serves two purposes: [1] to conserve space (when writing media was expensive) and [2] to make it as difficult as possible for the non-elite to be able to read or record their history or thoughts (after all, what thoughts of a peasant are worth noting?)

my tupence,
Deni

Offline anonymous2000

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Renommée: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2010, 04:33:01 PM »
it must be nice to be able to read the raws

Offline Tran Linh

  • J-Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Renommée: 7
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2010, 07:57:59 AM »
umm i can try--i'm wondering if i brought personal issues into this post about japanese...maybe i should stop...

k. rules.  japanese ppl like rules a lot, so their language incorporates them too.  rules in how you're allowed to talk to people, and not just in senior-junior relationships, but even peer-to-peer relationships have almost a formula in how you address someone--standard call-and-response things you ALWAYS say, like ittekimasu and itterasshai only times A MILLION. 

that kinda covers relationships too i guess....

and if you don't know the formula, you're pushed out of the group.  you officially can't communicate or relate to ppl because you said the wrong thing when the other person expected you to say something else.  If someone says "lets hang out sometime," i never knew if they meant it or not, because it was sometimes just a friendly thing to say and not something said seriously.  and i would ask when, and ppl would get flustered....
not to be mean, but where are you in Japan? i'm in Tokyo right now, and of all the coutries I've been through (singapore, Au, Eng, vn, cambo...), I can safely conclude that Japan is the best country for many people like me. I strongly disagree with you about the "rule" that you are speaking about. That "rule" (meaning about the relationship between senpai-kouhai, ue-shita...) only applies for Japanese. If you are a foreigner, you are guaranteed to be exempt from this rule. You are a foreigner and you knowing Japanese is good enough, they won't need you to use polite speech to them. Still, I am trying by best to follow that. Actually, that rule is quite interesting if you see it this way: Japanese are very polite people, most polite people on the earth I can say. Their language also reflects that. That is why, in social interaction, Japanese young people tend to pay respect to their elder (after all, in a job, chance are, older means more experienced and better, especially in my career, legal job). And, when you respect older people, younger people will reflect that, and pay respect to you. So it is a social norm that everyone automatically follow. Still, as I've said, if you are a foreigner, you are exempt from it.

About ittekimasu (i'm going) or itterasshai (good journey), how comes you have to say it a million times? just stepping out the door then you're done, no? It's like hello and goodbye, nothing different.

I'm not pushed out the group at all because of the language, I think the problem lies in the person. You see, most people are reluctant to make new friends because they are shy. Japanese people are even more shy when it comes to foreigner (heck, me 2), if you are not the one actively start the conversation, you are never going to have one. If they say "let's hang out sometimes" then it really means it, but funny thing is, you have to invite them or take some chance to tag along with them. I always tag along with my Japanese friend after work and class, and in the bar, Japanese are very easy to have conversation with. I'm not particularly obsessed with Japanese or what, but I just want to share my point of view.

P/S: their language is bloody hard, if you can spend days and days writing, listening, training your skill, from time to time learning it, then you can learn it. Just sticking to manga and anime never means to be successful with the language itself.
And, forgive my bad English since i'm not a native.
 

Offline Dante768

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Renommée: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2010, 01:13:27 AM »
Yeah, so I guess people from outside Japan learn Japanese for the sake of manga, anime, j-music, or light novels. I myself tried to learn Japanese self-teaching, but failed. Miserably. Its best that I find a class to learn Japanese, cause like, I plan on moving there one day.

P.S. Do not learn Japanese by self teaching methods. Way harder.

Also, is it true that you need at least 2-10 years to learn the language, plus 1 year in like....using it in a real conversation to learn the dialect?

Offline Ethriost

  • The Mediocre
  • J-Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
  • Renommée: 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2010, 02:00:12 PM »
I once had even more ridiculous reason for my interest in Japan language. Which is a single puzzle in a Japanese PSX RPG. I can make it through the game until I met this certain obstacle that I can't decipher its meaning unless I learn some Japanese. And that is enough to made me join an after-school Japanese class.
 :hahaha:

And then I realized how hard it is to learn Japanese. And barely pass the minimum grade for the basic lesson.
And the game? I never finish it. I don't even have the CD anymore now.
 :dark:

Offline RaZi3l

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Renommée: 0
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2010, 06:33:49 AM »
It's very normal.. In fact I'm learning them just for the sake of readings Light novels (Jap)..
Good anime and manga most of the time came from these..

Offline darkshift

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Renommée: 0
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2010, 11:57:23 AM »
the very purpose to learn japanese was to talk to my little cousin. Sadly, I was not able to learn that fast because I was too lazy and I got not a lot of people around me willing to practice japanese with me.

After that I just used the few japanese I learn to listen and read a bit manga/anime > <

Offline Revilenigma

  • Medically Certified Man-Child
  • GWR Team
  • J-Titan
  • *****
  • Posts: 4.022
  • Renommée: 193
  • #wow #whoa
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2010, 03:57:53 AM »
and i think give them 5-10 more years japanese culture will be westernized and most of the new generation would speak english instead.


Offline Acce

  • Untitled1.txt
  • GWR Team
  • J-Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.021
  • Renommée: 22
  • Gender: Male
  • I work hard to be able to be lazy.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2010, 03:37:46 AM »
and i think give them 5-10 more years japanese culture will be westernized and most of the new generation would speak english instead
Thanks for laughs.

Offline sarap_project

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Renommée: 0
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2010, 02:29:34 AM »
learning japanese for the sake of watching/reading raw - not actually. i've always been fascinated with japanese culture, and i think give them 5-10 more years japanese culture will be westernized and most of the new generation would speak english instead.

Offline red_pucca

  • Mikami Pai.
  • Global Moderator
  • J-Titan
  • *****
  • Posts: 4.130
  • Renommée: 178
  • Can I have my candy now?
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2010, 05:58:30 PM »
^The asians are very careful about not hurting other people's feelings. Small talks are taken seriously but the lies/hypocracies behind it are not.
Like when you say 'it was nice meeting you' after meeting someone, when you don't actually feel it. The asians (well at least the indonesians) would actually take it to another level and say 'you should come to my house sometimes', we would even get to the point of exchanging addresses and numbers. But we don't necesarily mean that, you wouldn't actually expect them to come and the other party wouldn't actually think the invitation was serious. We are crazy like that.
This usually happens when meeting a friend of the big family or a friend of a friend, etc.
It's slowly changing of course, the older generations still do that, maybe some of the younger ones. You can't really trust strangers nowadays.

Yeah, i think i was complaining because i was in the midst of culture shock.  it's just soooo different.  and it's not the grammar/structure that's weird imo, it's the rules you have to follow, it's the weird relationships that you have to adhere to, it's the way that ppl will lie to your face and think nothing of it.....they just call it "tatemae"....  Yeah, I guess my beef is more with the culture than the language alone.


I never did get over my culture shock (spent some years in the Netherlands). The japanese culture is basically the same like our culture (indonesian), to some degree of course. I guess you can say it's the asian culture. It's good that you're recovering from your culture shock, I don't think I'll ever recover. xD

Wut? o.O

Explain.

Yeah, i read it in the older manga (the ones that came out in Japan in the 70's and 80's). Some of them got translated and published in my country in mid 90's. I thought they were very strange and I thought it might be the translators fault. xD
That's basically why I wanted to learn Japanese, I didn't trust the translators and back then Wikipedia has not been invented xD

Offline Acce

  • Untitled1.txt
  • GWR Team
  • J-Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.021
  • Renommée: 22
  • Gender: Male
  • I work hard to be able to be lazy.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2010, 01:55:36 PM »
Isn't english also full of stuff you say without really meaning it, so called small talk?

I dunno, maybe I like rules then. Ofcourse, I have only experienced japanese mindset through net, and there has been those who were smart-asses and those who are really cool. But I will see when I get to live there for a year.

Offline Hermux

  • J-Hero
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Renommée: 21
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2010, 01:47:17 PM »
wut? O.o

Explain.

umm i can try--i'm wondering if i brought personal issues into this post about japanese...maybe i should stop...

k. rules.  japanese ppl like rules a lot, so their language incorporates them too.  rules in how you're allowed to talk to people, and not just in senior-junior relationships, but even peer-to-peer relationships have almost a formula in how you address someone--standard call-and-response things you ALWAYS say, like ittekimasu and itterasshai only times A MILLION. 

that kinda covers relationships too i guess....

and if you don't know the formula, you're pushed out of the group.  you officially can't communicate or relate to ppl because you said the wrong thing when the other person expected you to say something else.  If someone says "lets hang out sometime," i never knew if they meant it or not, because it was sometimes just a friendly thing to say and not something said seriously.  and i would ask when, and ppl would get flustered....

Offline Acce

  • Untitled1.txt
  • GWR Team
  • J-Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.021
  • Renommée: 22
  • Gender: Male
  • I work hard to be able to be lazy.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2010, 02:40:12 AM »
I was actually interested to learn japanese because of their 'weird' culture. I couldn't imagine a wife needing to walk 3 steps behind their husband or how boys and girls don't actually talk in school. And then later I found out that they have a meaner version of mean girls. =O
Wut? o.O

it's the rules you have to follow, it's the weird relationships that you have to adhere to, it's the way that ppl will lie to your face and think nothing of it.
wut? O.o

Explain.

Offline Hermux

  • J-Hero
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Renommée: 21
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2010, 12:18:48 AM »
And that's different than every other country how?

It's true that ppl lie wherever you go...I guess I was just surprised that people didn't recognize it as that, it was more of a front or a face that you put on depending on who you were talking to.  And I know that's true no matter where you go too, but still....

Offline wccrawford

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Renommée: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Memento mori.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2010, 12:12:04 AM »
it's the way that ppl will lie to your face and think nothing of it.

And that's different than every other country how?  My father knew someone who said "I never lie, unless I have to" and was proud of it!

Offline Hermux

  • J-Hero
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Renommée: 21
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2010, 12:08:21 AM »
Why did you say japanese is a screwed up language? xD Are you talking about its structure/grammar? or how the younger generations are screwing it up?

Yeah, i think i was complaining because i was in the midst of culture shock.  it's just soooo different.  and it's not the grammar/structure that's weird imo, it's the rules you have to follow, it's the weird relationships that you have to adhere to, it's the way that ppl will lie to your face and think nothing of it.....they just call it "tatemae"....  Yeah, I guess my beef is more with the culture than the language alone.

Offline red_pucca

  • Mikami Pai.
  • Global Moderator
  • J-Titan
  • *****
  • Posts: 4.130
  • Renommée: 178
  • Can I have my candy now?
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2010, 01:48:16 AM »
japanese is a seriously screwed-up language.  as are japanese people.  i never thought that until i went to japan, but trust me, the deeper into it you get, the weirder it gets.  don't do it unless you're ready for some serious brain agony

 :wallface:

Why did you say japanese is a screwed up language? xD Are you talking about its structure/grammar? or how the younger generations are screwing it up?

I was actually interested to learn japanese because of their 'weird' culture. I couldn't imagine a wife needing to walk 3 steps behind their husband or how boys and girls don't actually talk in school. And then later I found out that they have a meaner version of mean girls. =O

But I was thinking, maybe the weird stuff happens mostly in the bigger cities? What about the smaller cities or villages?

Offline wccrawford

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Renommée: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Memento mori.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2010, 11:50:24 PM »
wondering if i can do a similar thing with korean.....if i watch enough k-dramas and pick up a textbook, think it's possible? XD

Absolutely. 

Offline Hermux

  • J-Hero
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Renommée: 21
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2010, 10:42:04 PM »
wondering if i can do a similar thing with korean.....if i watch enough k-dramas and pick up a textbook, think it's possible? XD

Offline misher

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Renommée: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2010, 02:46:48 PM »
After watching enough anime you pick up japanese instinctively...at least I did.

I plan to somehow cram a lifetimes worth of jap into summer holidays to become fluent :D

Offline NoData

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Renommée: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2010, 08:57:44 PM »
I think its often like that for people, once you get interested in it, you try to learn more about it
If you like sports you get to know the rules or something first, so i would say it similiar for "raws + learn japanese"
You try to get more of the story / subbers are to lazy for you -> get the raws, you try to understand the raws -> learn the language!

So for its not only a valid reason, its a perfect reason,

for me it was the start to aim for a translator career after college. ;)


Offline wccrawford

  • J-Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Renommée: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Memento mori.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2010, 01:13:33 AM »
I initially got interested in learning Japanese because I'm impatient and didn't want to wait for translations and fansubs.  That was back when you could expect to wait at least a week for a fansub on your favorite shows.  I had already watched anime for about 10 years with subs only at that point, so I was used to listening to the language and knew a few basic words.

I'll never forget explaining to a friend that you only need 3 words to watch hentai anime:

dame - don't
yamete - stop
moto - more

And 10 seconds later, all 3 of them were used in that same order.

lol  I realize now that the translation of 'dame' isn't quite right, but it did let you understand the 'plot' and the usage right afterwards was hilarious.

Since then, life has gotten busy and I barely have time to watch my favorite shows, let alone be worried about getting them early.  Now I want to learn Japanese for the books/mangas of my shows that never get translated.   I've got 12 light novels on my shelf that I desperately want to read, and more that I'll enjoy once I'm good at reading.  And a TON of manga that I haven't read yet, raw.  (Most of the manga has translations, though...  I use it for reading and learning.)  And I've got even more that I'll order once I've read what I've got.

I also fan that even the best translations are lacking.  I am constantly hearing the characters say things that give more detail than the subs do, or mean something completely different. 

So yes...  That is a perfectly valid reason to learn Japanese.

Offline Ahmyrak

  • !-[~Smexified~]-!
  • J-Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.355
  • Renommée: 37
  • Gender: Female
  • Oooooh yeaaaahhhh~ :3
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2010, 01:49:03 AM »
Learning new languages is always good, and it's fun.
If I had my way and had enough time, I'd learn about
four languages and dabble in two others. X3 I've been
thinking of buying a rosetta stone for a couple of them.
 :yay: :banzai:

Offline Acce

  • Untitled1.txt
  • GWR Team
  • J-Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.021
  • Renommée: 22
  • Gender: Male
  • I work hard to be able to be lazy.
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2010, 12:50:20 AM »
Why not? You dont have to tell your reasons to anyone anyways, if raws are what motivate you, go for it! :yay: Learning new languages is always good.

Offline Ahmyrak

  • !-[~Smexified~]-!
  • J-Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 2.355
  • Renommée: 37
  • Gender: Female
  • Oooooh yeaaaahhhh~ :3
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2010, 11:41:36 PM »
I don't think it's weird at all really...
I've wanted to learn japanese for a long time, though
before it was more for the language itself and not so
much the anime/manga/music...but now that I've gotten
into certain raws that are way ahead of it's scanlations,
I'm tempted to try and learn it besides the few bits and
pieces I learn from listening to music and watching subs.
I blame Wolf Guy raws for this impulse. DX

Offline hobby_master

  • Madao
  • GWR Team
  • J-Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.654
  • Renommée: 116
  • Gender: Male
  • Madao will always be Madao...
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2010, 11:34:43 PM »
Can I extort you into translating stuff? :huhh:

Lol, like what? Show me some stuff, we'll see what I can do. Don't expect too much though.

Offline tairnac

  • J-Regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Renommée: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • BELEIVE IT!!
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2010, 10:46:26 AM »
japanese is a seriously screwed-up language.  as are japanese people.  i never thought that until i went to japan, but trust me, the deeper into it you get, the weirder it gets.  don't do it unless you're ready for some serious brain agony

 :wallface:
go read a book and get educated


i dabble in it but am still far from where i want  to be.


Offline honouji

  • J-Highlander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5.991
  • Renommée: 43
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2010, 01:24:56 AM »
Thank god I know enough Japanese to read RAWs and play Jap games with little problem (except with text-heavy games made by falcom, which are great if you're great at reading)

Honestly, unless you're willing to put a lot of time and effort into it, don't bother trying. For those who are trying, good luck.  :yay:
Can I extort you into translating stuff? :huhh:

Offline hobby_master

  • Madao
  • GWR Team
  • J-Overlord
  • *****
  • Posts: 1.654
  • Renommée: 116
  • Gender: Male
  • Madao will always be Madao...
    • View Profile
Re: learning japanese just for the sake of readin/watchin raws?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2010, 01:05:21 AM »
Thank god I know enough Japanese to read RAWs and play Jap games with little problem (except with text-heavy games made by falcom, which are great if you're great at reading)

Honestly, unless you're willing to put a lot of time and effort into it, don't bother trying. For those who are trying, good luck.  :yay: