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Author Topic: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-12+  (Read 520923 times)
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marids
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« Reply #2996 on: January 08, 2013, 11:14:00 PM »
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Agree on the first, but don't on the 2nd, I think somebody post in the good science basics, well far i remind, Tats Material Burst its not exactly "conversion" I guess its most likely fusion process, during the process of nucleosynthesis url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis[/url] during this process there's consumption or burning the basic materials like oxygen, hydrogen, others., so I assume there's point of no return or better say: restore, I think Eidos and Information Dimension will be like a dimension based on matrix code, so on this way doesn't matter what it your view or senses range, in this dimension you "can see" everything cuz are on the basic constitution code, like Neo in Matrix 3, Trini only saw wires and industrial plants, but Neo "see" all the facts or inside he can discriminate easy programs from "people", so trying simple its no time back, its mostly Eidos have 24 hrs lapse keeping the information (whoever have the chance with surveillance systems understand this time limitations on recordings), so I think Tats only "see" you your data and check what point of the 24 hrs lapse available its better for you and restore your data, energy its another whole different world and if he could "manage" I think we could have the chance to see this in the battles with Lina.

Well, yes, I agree, but energy still energy, depends on the range and frequency, so far i read I don't see anything can made me think Tats or others can manipulate energy by themselves, specially photons, neutrons or others basics.
Dont know who post "restore" its another reality, well its not Tats change reality or time route, he mostly disassemble and ensemble in the point no damage occurred, so that's why you can see like nothing happened, all inside 24 hrs limit time frame. 
 9th Clan.


why do people think material burst is fusion? that type of change requires manipulation of subatomic particles to fuse together to make bigger atoms, and that needs real magic, like gravity and stuff. its been stated over and over again that he can ONLY do disassembling and restoration of materials, this material burst is a direct matter disassembling/breaking down into energy process that manipulates nothing and only breaks apart all matter into its smallest form, pure energy, liken to a anti-matter to matter annihilation event, giving off 100% energy and no physical matter left. of course real annihilation needs anti matter to work but tatsuya can break apart matter itself without needing it, thus is more efficient. the power of e=mc2! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter
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pham_hoanglinh
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« Reply #2995 on: January 08, 2013, 10:19:22 PM »
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From volume 3 chapter 4

Currently, the Ten Master Clans consisted of "Ichijou", "Futatsugi", "Mitsuya", "Yotsuba", "Itsuwa", "Mutsudzuka", "Saegusa", "Yatsushiro", "Kudou", and "Juumonji", which just happened to number from one to ten chronologically. However, this was the first time this had occurred since the Ten Master Clans had been formed, and there have been situations where one or two numbers were either duplicated or missing altogether.

Kudou Retsu belongs to the Kudou clan obviously.

Wut? Sorry guys, Im a bit confused here. I understand that more than one house can have number in their name, but I thought all the others left are the branch houses from the main house respectively and somehow I recall them (the branch houses) as "18 assisstance families"
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coolio
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« Reply #2994 on: January 08, 2013, 07:53:29 PM »
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but what's the name of the clan.

From volume 3 chapter 4

Currently, the Ten Master Clans consisted of "Ichijou", "Futatsugi", "Mitsuya", "Yotsuba", "Itsuwa", "Mutsudzuka", "Saegusa", "Yatsushiro", "Kudou", and "Juumonji", which just happened to number from one to ten chronologically. However, this was the first time this had occurred since the Ten Master Clans had been formed, and there have been situations where one or two numbers were either duplicated or missing altogether.

Kudou Retsu belongs to the Kudou clan obviously.
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Jirachier
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« Reply #2993 on: January 08, 2013, 07:36:55 PM »
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9th Clan.
but what's the name of the clan.
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Chimurry
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« Reply #2992 on: January 08, 2013, 06:43:17 PM »
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Life Energy and energy are two things.
If he can convert matter into energy with Material Burst, I'm pretty sure he can do the opposite since it's only bringing the structure of one thing to another (if it's within 24 hours that is).


Agree on the first, but don't on the 2nd, I think somebody post in the good science basics, well far i remind, Tats Material Burst its not exactly "conversion" I guess its most likely fusion process, during the process of nucleosynthesis url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis[/url] during this process there's consumption or burning the basic materials like oxygen, hydrogen, others., so I assume there's point of no return or better say: restore, I think Eidos and Information Dimension will be like a dimension based on matrix code, so on this way doesn't matter what it your view or senses range, in this dimension you "can see" everything cuz are on the basic constitution code, like Neo in Matrix 3, Trini only saw wires and industrial plants, but Neo "see" all the facts or inside he can discriminate easy programs from "people", so trying simple its no time back, its mostly Eidos have 24 hrs lapse keeping the information (whoever have the chance with surveillance systems understand this time limitations on recordings), so I think Tats only "see" you your data and check what point of the 24 hrs lapse available its better for you and restore your data, energy its another whole different world and if he could "manage" I think we could have the chance to see this in the battles with Lina.

we should not call it life energy to avoid confusion as zerourashima stated, life force and energy are very different.
The 1st gen sakurai is a much better example of life force. Miya was already at her limits in terms of her health way beyond 24 hours. Shes gradually getting worse for years because


Well, yes, I agree, but energy still energy, depends on the range and frequency, so far i read I don't see anything can made me think Tats or others can manipulate energy by themselves, specially photons, neutrons or others basics.
Dont know who post "restore" its another reality, well its not Tats change reality or time route, he mostly disassemble and ensemble in the point no damage occurred, so that's why you can see like nothing happened, all inside 24 hrs limit time frame. 

Um which Numbered family does Kudou belongs to ?(the name and number)
9th Clan.
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Monstratboy
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« Reply #2991 on: January 08, 2013, 05:39:56 PM »
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Non-systematic Magic, you do everything yourself since it's directly
But systematic magic, the process is semi-automatic.
...
so you don't manipulate the Psion directly at all
My point is both involve manipulating psions using the magic part of the mind, be it directly or partly-automatic. I agree with all the differences you have mentioned as G. Dem. is a different magic and does not alter phenomena. But I believe the basics of this more direct use of psions can be prepared from an activation sequence.
Like I said, CAD is USED to load Activation Sequence, that’s not what it DOES.
...
Converting psion signals to electronic signals is what it does.
Use the psion to produce the AS is how they use it.
Two complete different things.
CAD can turn Psion signals to Electronical ones (so your brain can read I guess since it’s electronic signals in our body). The CAD processor can also lower the strain of the caster by doing part of the processing in the CAD instead. Specialized CAD also have an aiming device. There are lots of things you can make use of.
Yes, CADs were created to help cast magic and has different systems to optimise its invocation. But all the descriptions show the magic used with the CAD depends on the activation sequence loaded. This is what is important and relates to the examples in my previous post about non-systematic magic loaded or outersystematic magic loaded into a CAD.

Also, like you mentioned, the CAD is there to replace incantation and everything but Tatsuya casted without any problem when he was 13 without CAD extremely quickly. In the Vampire Arc, Tatsuya also casted it with his left hand that didn’t hold a CAD in a split second. In other words, that thing didn’t require Incantation and stuff to begin with.
As we've spoken on previously, magicians can cast magic without CADs. But they still use them to improve things like speed, targeting, stress reduction, etc. Even very powerful magicians like Miyuki who activated magic at school in 235ms in vol. 2 feels disappointed and comments her personally customized CAD would have allowed her to do better. The magic's blueprint must be 1st loaded into the CAD though, like the CAD he used only for G. Dem. in Monolith Code.

This is not true at all.
First, the 9 Nine Competition had limitations on hardware. Creating something that can reach those limits is easy.
From how they were surprised about the CAD he redesigned for Shizuku in her speed shooting final I must disagree. So while his software skills are what he is known for, he is still shown to be a genius with hardware design. Unless you think since he didn't come up with the idea it doesn't count. Azusa says loop cast was not 1st theorized by Silver Taurus, but it's their genius that got it to work.

I never said he is better than his work colleagues.  I'm saying you are greatly understating his hardware skills.

Ah, I knew there was something else about the Induction Stone or whatever, finally found it.
This is for what the CAD does (not what it is used for)
...
This is what 1 part of the CAD does. What a CAD does is help a magician invoke their magic. It also has a processor for speed and has memory to hold software and sometimes other sub-systems, but that stone is the core component that allows for an electronic activation ritual instead of the other methods. Psions are absorbed and converted, then the selected magic(chosen from the already preloaded activation sequences, or single preloaded magic in the case specialised Cads) is electronically prepared, and converted back to psions to be reabsorbed. Thats how I see it in simple terms, when taking into account everything you have quoted along with the other CADs descriptions given.
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bloodyclaws
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« Reply #2990 on: January 08, 2013, 05:00:42 PM »
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Correct me if I am wrong: "Restore" or "Divine Left" does not apply to energy and have time frame (24 hrs).
Lets say I broke my leg for 2nd time and 23 hrs later Tats could "restore" but only inside the time limit, but my first time wouldn't "heal" or restore to the original when I was born, same if the problem its genetic or fabric failure.
Another one its heal problems, like Miya, She dies after Okinawa??, and Tats save her from the shooting but not from previous healing issues, even if you made it to barely survive if your life energy is gone, you will die, 1st gen Sakurai show this fact, Tats can manipulate materia but not energy, he can restore objects, please remind when he fought Lina and restore his CAD.
So he cannot manipulate energy with restore.

we should not call it life energy to avoid confusion as zerourashima stated, life force and energy are very different.

The 1st gen sakurai is a much better example of life force. Miya was already at her limits in terms of her health way beyond 24 hours. Shes gradually getting worse for years because of over usage of magic. Tats restoration is not a reversal of time. Its a replacement of reality. But this is not so omnipotent that he can bring a backup from when she was 5 years old. There would be a lot of detriments, if he brings a backup from that far back. It wouldn't be feasible.
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Jirachier
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« Reply #2989 on: January 08, 2013, 04:57:00 PM »
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Um which Numbered family does Kudou belongs to ?(the name and number)
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ZeroUrashima
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« Reply #2988 on: January 08, 2013, 04:39:13 PM »
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Life Energy and energy are two things.
If he can convert matter into energy with Material Burst, I'm pretty sure he can do the opposite since it's only bringing the structure of one thing to another (if it's within 24 hours that is).

Miya used too much her Mind Structure Altering spell and "broke her body" at the age of 20 according to the new chapter in Volume 8.
She felt guilty about having "killed" her sister. She turned all her memories into knowledge instead so memories that made up Maya were all gone and it's a "new" Maya.
So her body was already borderline back in the Okinawa incidents.
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« Reply #2987 on: January 08, 2013, 04:17:45 PM »
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If he can, then it'll be night for a moment but the sun will bring in new light instantly so it won't make such a big difference.
He'll have to keep breaking down over and over again to maintain it IMO. Not like the Sun is gone and stops generating new photons.

Correct me if I am wrong: "Restore" or "Divine Left" does not apply to energy and have time frame (24 hrs).
Lets say I broke my leg for 2nd time and 23 hrs later Tats could "restore" but only inside the time limit, but my first time wouldn't "heal" or restore to the original when I was born, same if the problem its genetic or fabric failure.
Another one its heal problems, like Miya, She dies after Okinawa??, and Tats save her from the shooting but not from previous healing issues, even if you made it to barely survive if your life energy is gone, you will die, 1st gen Sakurai show this fact, Tats can manipulate materia but not energy, he can restore objects, please remind when he fought Lina and restore his CAD.
So he cannot manipulate energy with restore.
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ZeroUrashima
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« Reply #2986 on: January 08, 2013, 04:03:53 PM »
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If he can, then it'll be night for a moment but the sun will bring in new light instantly so it won't make such a big difference.
He'll have to keep breaking down over and over again to maintain it IMO. Not like the Sun is gone and stops generating new photons.
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bloodyclaws
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« Reply #2985 on: January 08, 2013, 03:55:09 PM »
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"Regrowth" or "Regenerate" or "Restructure" (I tihnk this is the best term) works on objects.
All it does is roll back the Eidos back to the previous one so it brings back the structure of something back to a structure it had before within 24 hours. (If you played a MMO and had a roll back, that's similar)
Restoring a window or any object is possible, Miyuki says it in Volume 7.

Day to Night is impossible though. Even if he can get rid of the photons for a moment, the sun is still there.
But his spell meddles with the structure of things so he can't really make them disappear. The photons cannot just disappear I think.

hmm.. come to think of it, since he is breaking down, and not making things disappear, what would happen if he breaks photons down to the quantum level?

of course, we dont know but its good to just see what your opinion on this would be.
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ZeroUrashima
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« Reply #2984 on: January 08, 2013, 03:42:49 PM »
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"Regrowth" or "Regenerate" or "Restructure" (I tihnk this is the best term) works on objects.
All it does is roll back the Eidos back to the previous one so it brings back the structure of something back to a structure it had before within 24 hours. (If you played a MMO and had a roll back, that's similar)
Restoring a window or any object is possible, Miyuki says it in Volume 7.

Day to Night is impossible though. Even if he can get rid of the photons for a moment, the sun is still there.
But his spell meddles with the structure of things so he can't really make them disappear. The photons cannot just disappear I think.
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fast_eel
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« Reply #2983 on: January 08, 2013, 03:28:12 PM »
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Thats an interesting way to think of "regrowth". Honesty, whenever we think of restoration, we think of restoring a human body to a prior state or a broken object, as that is what we've seen from tats so far.

Actually, theoretically why not? reversing photons to its prior state, whatever it would be should not be something out of the norm. Tats restoration is able to delve into the informational dimension and grab out a back up in a sense, overlay it on top, and make reality believe this is what it should be, at this current time, in this current place. Keep in mind that a human body is made up of countless elements down to the utmost microscopic of levels right down to the quantum particles. Everything which makes up a human being. So.. why not indeed.

someone who knows japanese should mention this to the author of MknR
and see what he says
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« Reply #2982 on: January 08, 2013, 03:24:45 PM »
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Hello there! This is my second post and i didnt read the rules so i hope i dont break any here 

I just finished reading the summaries from the web arcs, all of them. Thing is, i have a doubt about the "regrowth" ability from mister Tatsuya.

As i understand, it can restore the Eidos prior 24 hours.

Being Magic itself a way to alter or change Eidos, everything that can be modified by magic can be called Eidos.
There are lots of magics shown already. For example, Honoka can play with light (so i will assume it has something to do with photons).
So, i conclude that this regrowth ability can also change photons to a prior state.

In other words, if it was night, he could make it day?
Or if a window breaks, regrowth could make it the way it was before? 

Just wondering if someone could explain this to me please, it's not the first light novel I read, but is the first one to really catch my attention to this degree

Thank you for your time!

P.d.: Sorry if my english is not good enough, i'm working on it. PLease dont hit me D:

Thats an interesting way to think of "regrowth". Honesty, whenever we think of restoration, we think of restoring a human body to a prior state or a broken object, as that is what we've seen from tats so far.

Actually, theoretically why not? reversing photons to its prior state, whatever it would be should not be something out of the norm. Tats restoration is able to delve into the informational dimension and grab out a back up in a sense, overlay it on top, and make reality believe this is what it should be, at this current time, in this current place. Keep in mind that a human body is made up of countless elements down to the utmost microscopic of levels right down to the quantum particles. Everything which makes up a human being. So.. why not indeed.
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fast_eel
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« Reply #2981 on: January 08, 2013, 03:24:08 PM »
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Vamps arc, web 6.

thank you 
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« Reply #2980 on: January 08, 2013, 03:21:39 PM »
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why have I never questioned the meaing of Makeishura till you posted? XD

three eyes = third eye
eight arms = dual wield trident
white ox = HOLY LIGHT (reference from the picture in volume 7 with tats above all the cyborgs bathed in a white light.)

sorry, just having a little fun here XD

But come to think of it, tats has a lot of different aliases

"Strategic-Class Magician Special Lieutenant Ooguro Ryuuya" = by kazama
"god of destruction" = sage
"Makeishura" = chinese
"demon of the far east" = ? (who was it that gave him this alias?)
did I miss any?

"The Bug"?? by Kazumi, btw: Someone have direct translate if the Saegusa Twins have specific alias??, I think they referring "bugs" to the guys which like trying to be close of Mayumi, but not sure if they assigned one specific to Tats, specially after find her Onee Sama being strangely close to him (far I understood from Double Seven Summaries)

Someone have the audio link to drama dvd and the story came with?? oohh, and Double Seven its only avaible on summaries??
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« Reply #2979 on: January 08, 2013, 03:00:49 PM »
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Okay on a side note to all the other conversations going on I finally went and looked this up cause I hadn't seen it mentioned yet and it was frustrating not knowing what it meant.   

 Hence I'm putting it here for all the others who didn't know what it meant either.

Maheshvara
[摩醯首羅天] (Skt; Jpn Makeishura-ten)

    A god said to reign over the major world system. An incorporation of the major Hindu god Shiva into Buddhism. Shiva (Auspicious One) is one of the main deities of Hinduism, embodying seemingly contradictory qualities. He is both the destroyer and the restorer of the world. The Sanskrit name Maheshvara was rendered in China as "God of Great Freedom." He is usually depicted as having three eyes and eight arms and riding a white ox.

This is what the Chinese are refering too when they call him Makeishura. I'm sure a good many already knew or looked it up but for those who still don't know... well congrats now you do! 

why have I never questioned the meaing of Makeishura till you posted? XD

three eyes = third eye
eight arms = dual wield trident
white ox = HOLY LIGHT (reference from the picture in volume 7 with tats above all the cyborgs bathed in a white light.)

sorry, just having a little fun here XD

But come to think of it, tats has a lot of different aliases

"Strategic-Class Magician Special Lieutenant Ooguro Ryuuya" = by kazama
"god of destruction" = sage
"Makeishura" = chinese
"demon of the far east" = ? (who was it that gave him this alias?)

did I miss any?
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« Reply #2978 on: January 08, 2013, 12:07:45 PM »
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Hello there! This is my second post and i didnt read the rules so i hope i dont break any here 
I just finished reading the summaries from the web arcs, all of them. Thing is, i have a doubt about the "regrowth" ability from mister Tatsuya.
P.d.: Sorry if my english is not good enough, i'm working on it. PLease dont hit me D:

  Well, I not mod or like that, but not reading the rules its no excuse for broke the rules.  so will be nice reading and here I see only nice people, so far don't see any bulling 

About your question: far I understand and very simple way to see its time back, ts more like if something happen, Tats take the info 24 hrs previous frame and reconstruct the subject, something like in the middle of Limebell from Accel World and Orihime from Bleach.

in what web arc did erika found out that tatsuya was from the yotsuba family?
was it after the yokohama war? or before?

Vamps arc, web 6.
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blackwhite67
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« Reply #2977 on: January 08, 2013, 11:55:08 AM »
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The last vampire arc. Six I think.
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« Reply #2976 on: January 08, 2013, 11:52:41 AM »
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in what web arc did erika found out that tatsuya was from the yotsuba family?
was it after the yokohama war? or before?
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« Reply #2975 on: January 08, 2013, 11:44:09 AM »
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Hello there! This is my second post and i didnt read the rules so i hope i dont break any here 

I just finished reading the summaries from the web arcs, all of them. Thing is, i have a doubt about the "regrowth" ability from mister Tatsuya.

As i understand, it can restore the Eidos prior 24 hours.

Being Magic itself a way to alter or change Eidos, everything that can be modified by magic can be called Eidos.
There are lots of magics shown already. For example, Honoka can play with light (so i will assume it has something to do with photons).
So, i conclude that this regrowth ability can also change photons to a prior state.

In other words, if it was night, he could make it day?
Or if a window breaks, regrowth could make it the way it was before? 

Just wondering if someone could explain this to me please, it's not the first light novel I read, but is the first one to really catch my attention to this degree

Thank you for your time!

P.d.: Sorry if my english is not good enough, i'm working on it. PLease dont hit me D:
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ZeroUrashima
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« Reply #2974 on: January 08, 2013, 05:02:27 AM »
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geezus, you had to reply, I was dropping the issue -_-
I guess I am just bad at giving up as long as I still have points I haven't said yet.

I've not disputed this. I've only stated systematic magic alters reality using a group of manipulated psions, called a magic sequence after heavy processing in a magicians brain. Even if one magic does not alter reality, it does not mean an activation sequence can not be involved at the beginning since in both cases, groups of psions have been manipulated by the will of the magician.

You see, the point is directly.
Non-systematic Magic, you do everything yourself since it's directly
But systematic magic, the process is semi-automatic. The Activation Sequence is done by the CAD. The building of the Magic Sequence is done semi-automatically by the Magic Computation Area (Note that this thing is in the unconsciousness so you don't have complete control over it). Which is why modern Magic is technology and not techniques like Ancient Magic. The only thing that Magician can do is to insert variables (Loop Cast explanation), input settings to keep it under control (From Shizuku in Volume 4 about what she asked from her engineers) and give orders to do stuff that wasn't in the AS (Volume 2 preamble says that a high-level magician can decide to load a simplified AS instead and increase the processing of his MCA to speeden casting time so if it's simplified, the missing part must come from somewhere) so you don't manipulate the Psion directly at all.

Volume 3, chapter 2:
"Magicians can feel the Activation Sequences that have been absorbed into their physical body, just as they are able to sense the Magic Sequence being constructed within them. However, the construction process for Magic Sequences is partially involuntary and is not subject to conscious interference.

If this wasn't the case, based on human limits of understanding and comprehension of data, there would be no way to create Information Bodies capable of influencing reality."



Magic works this way according to the Volume 5 preamble (too lazy to quote from b-t coz I forgot where it was exactly when it was explained a bit more in detail)
1) You read the Activation Sequence from the CAD
2) You add variables that can be change and send it to the Magic Computation Domain
3) The Magic Sequence is created from the Activation Sequence and variables
4) The built Magic Sequence is sent to the gate which is situated between the highest level of unconciousness and the lowest level of consciousness, it is then outputted to (???出力する, not sure how to translate, sounds weird to me, maybe because I'm not familiar with computer terms) the Idea.
5) The Magic Sequence outputted by the Edea  is then sent to the specified coordinates and modifies the Eidos

In other words, the AS gets directly to the MCA and builds MS then is sent to the Idea.
But GD doesn’t go through Idea and don’t need MS but whatever is constructed there needs to through the Idea to go out. That’s a fact.
The MCA is in the unconsciousness so you can’t directly control the Psion.
The AS goes directly the MCA and its only purpose is to build the MS.

Also, like you mentioned, the CAD is there to replace incantation and everything but Tatsuya casted without any problem when he was 13 without CAD extremely quickly. In the Vampire Arc, Tatsuya also casted it with his left hand that didn’t hold a CAD in a split second. In other words, that thing didn’t require Incantation and stuff to begin with.



From Vampire Arc:
元々CADは系統魔法を短時間で発動する為の道具であり、他の魔法、系統外魔法や無系統魔法、分類の性質は違うが古式魔法にも使えるとはいえ、特に無系統魔法は、サイオンを放出するだけの単純なものならCADが無くてもそれ程の不自由は無い

“CAD was originally to shorten the casting time of systematic Magic. Other magic, such as Outer-Systematic Magic and Non-systematic Magic, can also be used as Ancient Magic although the categorization is different and having a CAD or not doesn’t really make a difference, especially for Non-Systematic Magic that does something simple such as emitting Psion Flows.”

CAD was created for Systematic Magic so all the explanation you read about CAD was under the context Systematic Magic is used.
Besides, non-systematic Magic wasn't even introduced when they were at Yakumo's temple in Volume 1.

I have trouble agreeing mainly due to CADs always being described in the LN as using activation sequences, even with nonsystematic magic(Kichijouji's shock about Tats CAD sequences that were known to be installed but then quickly changed) and outersystematic magic(Miki's CAD prepared by Tats for M. Code), and that Tatsuya's overwhelming skills shown with both hardware and software in the 9 schools's competition seem to clearly counter your suggestion.

Trident and Third Eye are the best example of these.
From Volume 4, chapter 12.
"This was the Specialized CAD specifically customized to activate three consecutive magics. "

It was specialized to cast 3 spells consecutively, not 3 Decomposition Spell consecutively. Used as a support.
Third Eye is a specialized CAD (calls it device in Volume 3 but CAD in volume 7) to target really accurately over the horizon.
There is no reason for Tatsuya to input an Activation Sequence of the highest level on his CAD when it’s already on stand-by (according to Mari) in his MCA since it’ll take a long time for it to load and it’s just a waste of time.


Like I said, CAD is USED to load Activation Sequence, that’s not what it DOES.

Just like how my rice cooker is used to cook rice (duh). But I can use it steam things if I want. If you read the yakitate Japan manga, you can make bread with the thing too. Using a tool is to make use of a property of the tool in a way we want, not what the tool can only do or does.

From Volume 1, chapter 2
"This device, which incorporates synthetic materials that convert psion signals into electric signals, uses the psion from a magic ritual to produce a collection of electronic magic—the activation ritual. "

Converting psion signals to electronic signals is what it does.
Use the psion to produce the AS is how they use it.

Two complete different things.
CAD can turn Psion signals to Electronical ones (so your brain can read I guess since it’s electronic signals in our body). The CAD processor can also lower the strain of the caster by doing part of the processing in the CAD instead. Specialized CAD also have an aiming device. There are lots of things you can make use of.



If you don't agree after this, we will never agree.


Replied: December 20, 2012, 03:19:25 PM
Tatsuya's overwhelming skills shown with both hardware and software in the 9 schools's competition seem to clearly counter your suggestion.

This is not true at all.
First, the 9 Nine Competition had limitations on hardware. Creating something that can reach those limits is easy.
Second, Thorus Silver is known for revolutioning the software of CAD. He isn't known for revolutioning the hardware.
That means that Thorus is better than him but Thorus’ invention are nothing revolutionary.
Tatsuya is even under that level. All the invention that Azusa named were software related things too, nothing about hardware.

Volume 4, chapter 9
"every school had an upper ceiling in terms of machinery, there was no significant difference in hardware capability.
Thus, the only difference lay in software performance.
In other words, the strength of the technician."

Volume 3, chapter 1:
"He is called the genius engineer that advanced CAD software technology by ten years within one short year, so I think that no one who aims to be a Magic Artificer would be uninterested in him"


Replied: January 08, 2013, 11:36:32 AM
Ah, I knew there was something else about the Induction Stone or whatever, finally found it.
This is for what the CAD does (not what it is used for)

Volume 4, chapter 13:
' "This is not something that should exist in the world in the first place. I would never use it, nor do I want anyone in the force to do so. —Tatsuya-kun knows how the Induction Stone in the center of the CAD is produced, right?"

Induction Stones refer to the component that transforms psion waves into electric signals and vice versa. Tatsuya was bewildered at the abrupt change in conversation and nodded in assent.

"Induction Stones are created from a crystallization of neurons chemically synthesized from the molecular level. Since the differences in structure may impact the conversion ratio, the emphasis is placed on the structural composition rather than the physical characteristics of the neurons. That being said, currently there are no reports of successful developments of Induction Stones without relying on artificial materials." '



This Induction Stone is the same thing as the thing in the next quote. Probably has been too long and wasn't mentioned often so the name he chose in the past was forgotten. Btw, according to the Japanese text, the quote above is correct. It doesn't just do a one way transformation (Psion signal to Electronic signal) but can also do the opposite (Electronic Signal to Psion Signal)

From Volume 1, chapter 2
"This device, which incorporates synthetic materials that convert psion signals into electric signals, uses the psion from a magic ritual to produce a collection of electronic magic—the activation ritual. "


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« Reply #2973 on: January 08, 2013, 03:11:42 AM »
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Okay on a side note to all the other conversations going on I finally went and looked this up cause I hadn't seen it mentioned yet and it was frustrating not knowing what it meant.   

 Hence I'm putting it here for all the others who didn't know what it meant either.

Maheshvara
[摩醯首羅天] (Skt; Jpn Makeishura-ten)

    A god said to reign over the major world system. An incorporation of the major Hindu god Shiva into Buddhism. Shiva (Auspicious One) is one of the main deities of Hinduism, embodying seemingly contradictory qualities. He is both the destroyer and the restorer of the world. The Sanskrit name Maheshvara was rendered in China as "God of Great Freedom." He is usually depicted as having three eyes and eight arms and riding a white ox.

This is what the Chinese are refering too when they call him Makeishura. I'm sure a good many already knew or looked it up but for those who still don't know... well congrats now you do! 
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« Reply #2972 on: January 07, 2013, 07:26:23 PM »
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Mayumi knows Tatsuya is a very powerful combat magician who secretly works for the military, but besides the shock they show during the Yokohoma arc, and except for Erika, Mayumi and the others still treat him exactly the same in the later arcs. After the volume 5 school elections, Mayumi thinks his family was once part of the 10 Master Clans.  But from her thoughts in her web SS after the attack at the thesis competition, we know she doesn't make any link to Tatsuya's skills and the culprit of the land and then sea massacre of the invading army. There is also no situation in the later web arcs that indicates Mayumi might learn more about the culprit of those events except for what Fujibayashi, her father and the USNA already know or worked out themselves before the vamp attacks. And none of these people were shown to be sharing any such secrets with her.
In my case I thinking about the "close" ones, the School ready know under their concepts Tats is really a bad ass from Public Moral Committee due his actions on some cases like recruiting clubs week, I know, not close a bit of his true power, but even with this and Miyuki her highness the Queen (somebody said was "Ice Queen" but not sure), people like Takuma have the IQ like seashell to glare or even try attack Tats just cuz really don't know who is Tats or Miyuki.
From Mayumi SS about Tats secrets (Nov. 2095 just 2 days after "Japan" (We know who was) wipe out retiring Asian Alliance Navy Fleet 80 kilometers from Yokohama and eliminate the fleet to invade Japan on Korea coast with the bases, cities and facilities):
quote: "Mayumi gave her word to keep the secret. Tatsuya’s special magic shouldn't have reached father’s ears. That said, though the secret is kept from her father, her father probably received up some limited information.
In other words, father is highly suspicious of Shiba Tatsuya.
Moreover, it seems that he is suspicious of “something” that even she herself doesn't know.
Even though Mayumi is curious about what that “something” is, her feelings to avoid the secret are even stronger. She’s highly scared of the harm this secret would do to her relations with other people.
“This is the same…, if I don’t ask, I don’t know.”

This answer was the best she could muster up." end of quote.
Another question I notice there is mention Tats ask Mayumi help for locate the Vamps kidnapped by the 3rd Intel Division, Tats asked Mayumi to get the info and She got it, very probably She can access high level of info inside Saegusa Clan.
Like @Jirachier and Bloodyclaws point the level of the events are just too big to cover up, that point we can see USNA made in less of a week, 15 candidates list of probably War Class Magician responsible of the events, take on account there's like 30 thousands magicians in Japan (somebody said the author mentions this number), so if a outsider Intel could got the list, I think insiders could get more close, add the info spread inside Asian Alliance armed forces, "Makeishura" back to scene after Okinawa loss, so all this could go on urban legends or myths, but we know how the press, media or social networks works on War or conflicts events, Sage Raymond call Tats: "God Of Destruction".
At least the ones on the scene in Yokohama and saw Tats mobile suit, demon right and divine left can made assumptions (Katsuto and Mayumi known about dispersion and at least Mayumi known about "heal" or restoration), whom really he is, that's why I have interest, cuz one logical reaction its fear to interact with him, others like Katsuto and Mayumi could ready made the maths accounts and know this will be come a huge issue due the high importance of 2nd Japans War Class Magician with even a lot more known advantages than Mio or others: high engineering capacities (believe he could be not good at hardware but for he still above average), really ample wide range or focus dispersion, long distance fusion explosion attacks (if I understood AA fleet and bases was 800 kms away from Japan), close combat abilities and restoration, not to mention others we ready know.
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« Reply #2971 on: January 07, 2013, 04:48:20 PM »
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I'm getting tired to look all over the places to try to convince you, doesn't feel like you'll agree anyway.
I have trouble agreeing mainly due to CADs always being described in the LN as using activation sequences, even with nonsystematic magic(Kichijouji's shock about Tats CAD sequences that were known to be installed but then quickly changed) and outersystematic magic(Miki's CAD prepared by Tats for M. Code), and that Tatsuya's overwhelming skills shown with both hardware and software in the 9 schools's competition seem to clearly counter your suggestion.

I should have rephrased myself for Non-systematic Magic though, it's a type of magic whose goal is to directly manipulate the Psion. That's how they introduced it.
Goal of Systematic Magic is to alter reality.
I've not disputed this. I've only stated systematic magic alters reality using a group of manipulated psions, called a magic sequence after heavy processing in a magicians brain. Even if one magic does not alter reality, it does not mean an activation sequence can not be involved at the beginning since in both cases, groups of psions have been manipulated by the will of the magician.

I don't think She hadn't realize, as you say in the SS Mio visit Saegusa House (from Summaries), She said she is afraid of go deeper cuz in the process could hurt someone (not quite clear these parts) and I as pointed, we still like 95% blind about after Japan vs Asian Alliance War (far I know took like 3 days overturn almost defeat by Japan to wipe AA Navy Fleet), I think the maths are very easy, She saw cuz her technique Tats "erase" the truck, remember the locusts erasing by black mobile suit with 2 silver Cads and later Miyuki rescue on air and "heal" (I know the details but I just based on Miyuki explaining) Kirihara and Isora, Tats was using his mobile suit and opened his helmet, so if you heard after about some Demon God which wipe enemies troops and heal friends, well 2+2=4, I think Mayumi should know more when 3rd Intel Division was after Tats steps on Vamps Arc, but again I am blind there, it just preliminary conclusions based on summaries and the logical development under my point of view, of the story line.
Mayumi knows Tatsuya is a very powerful combat magician who secretly works for the military, but besides the shock they show during the Yokohoma arc, and except for Erika, Mayumi and the others still treat him exactly the same in the later arcs. After the volume 5 school elections, Mayumi thinks his family was once part of the 10 Master Clans.  But from her thoughts in her web SS after the attack at the thesis competition, we know she doesn't make any link to Tatsuya's skills and the culprit of the land and then sea massacre of the invading army. There is also no situation in the later web arcs that indicates Mayumi might learn more about the culprit of those events except for what Fujibayashi, her father and the USNA already know or worked out themselves before the vamp attacks. And none of these people were shown to be sharing any such secrets with her.
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« Reply #2970 on: January 07, 2013, 04:43:27 PM »
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Even if the Yotsuba or the 101st Batallion tried to cover anything up Mayumi and the rest would've at least heard the rumours about the man who wrecked havoc in the battlefield while healing his allies, an ability only displayed by Tatsuya, just that should've been enough to put the two together.

I get where your coming from and I do not have enough knowledge in this topic to bring light into it. But keep in mind that the battle against the chinese is quite trivial for a specialized military branch like the 101st to cover up. Not only the 101st, but dont get me started with the yotsuba. Secrecy is their forte.

I am not the right person to go to when it comes to the "rumors" involving a man wrecking havoc on the battlefield.  I do know that something as big as tats material burst will bring forth a lot of rumors when it comes to a clean mass to energy conversion. The scale is just too large.

Not too sure about tats systematically destroying the chinese army as that is way easier to control when it comes to secrecy then a large scale war level magic.

But all in all, everything im saying is based on my opinion on the topic. Nothing more.

In fact, let me defend your opinion into this. I think Mayumi has an idea and has definitely scratched the surface into spreading the veil that covers tats. It has been shown multiple times that his secrets are slowly being revealed. Intentionally or unintentionally. But assumptions are only assumptions. The thought of tats being a yotsuba, a war level magician, a soldier of the 101st, and all his other secrets may have crossed her mind at one point. But even then, what she knows is still too little evidence to dictate so. She can speculate about it, but the truth will never get out unless she tries to delve deeper into his secrets. It is said at one point that erika was scared to go any further when she figured out his identity as a yotsuba. This same notion applies to Mayumi.

It is definitely true that the student council knows that tats is no normal magician. All evidence dictates so. They just do not know the full picture just yet.

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« Reply #2969 on: January 07, 2013, 03:59:45 PM »
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I cant put my 2 cents into because those parts haven't been translated but how much does Mayumi know about that battle with the chinese, when tats used his abilities. Everytime tats has access to his arsenal, it always gets extensively covered up by the yotsuba or the 101st batallion. So how much does anyone outside of the culprits really know what happened.

Maybe they know about some theoretical large scale mass to energy conversion that happened since the destruction was too big to hide, But do they know about that which caused the chinese to call him the demon?

Even if the Yotsuba or the 101st Batallion tried to cover anything up Mayumi and the rest would've at least heard the rumours about the man who wrecked havoc in the battlefield while healing his allies, an ability only displayed by Tatsuya, just that should've been enough to put the two together.
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« Reply #2968 on: January 07, 2013, 03:56:10 PM »
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Here is SS 01, traslate by Whisie:
I'm currently reading one of the SS between Web 2 (9 School Tournament) and Web 3.
Looks like we get more Mayumi 


SS02: Student Elections brief scenes, one of them, Mayumi thinking's about Tats.

SS03, 2 days after "Scorched Halloween Event" and 3 days after Yokohama battle which begun the war between Japan vs Asian Alliance:
(sorry I don't know whom translate and the source)

There is Double 7 arc or "Ninendo" based on 7th Clan internal dispute: Saegusa Main House and side branch house, publish every 3 months?, 2 releases and next release will come on february. 

Speak of Mahouka material: Somebody known about Drama DVD and I think I heard something about 40 pages SS with the DVD sale??? 
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« Reply #2967 on: January 07, 2013, 03:36:18 PM »
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  new in here, but where is this summary of mayumi ss that everybody talks, i alredy found the others summaries but not that of mayumi, an someone tell me where is it?
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« Reply #2966 on: January 07, 2013, 02:39:18 PM »
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tbh It's really weird that his close friends especially Mayumi still hadn't come to the conclusion that Tatsuya is the guy who used both disintegration and restoration magic on the battlefield agains the chinese and completely obliterated them, they already know about how secretive Tatsuya is, which just makes you wonder how many of his abilities is he really hiding add to that the fact that he can heal other people's wounds EXACTLY like the guy who massacred the chinese in battle by decomposing them and their vehicules(Mayumi even thinks that Tatsuya is the one who made the truck disappear when she was recalling him in her SS) and the fact that his magic abilities are restricted by the military, it's really surprising that they can come close to the reality of which clan Tatsuya belongs to but not the rest.

I cant put my 2 cents into because those parts haven't been translated but how much does Mayumi know about that battle with the chinese, when tats used his abilities. Everytime tats has access to his arsenal, it always gets extensively covered up by the yotsuba or the 101st batallion. So how much does anyone outside of the culprits really know what happened.

Maybe they know about some theoretical large scale mass to energy conversion that happened since the destruction was too big to hide, But do they know about that which caused the chinese to call him the demon?
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« Reply #2965 on: January 07, 2013, 02:14:30 PM »
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tbh It's really weird that his close friends especially Mayumi still hadn't come to the conclusion that Tatsuya is the guy who used both disintegration and restoration magic on the battlefield agains the chinese and completely obliterated them, they already know about how secretive Tatsuya is, which just makes you wonder how many of his abilities is he really hiding add to that the fact that he can heal other people's wounds EXACTLY like the guy who massacred the chinese in battle by decomposing them and their vehicules(Mayumi even thinks that Tatsuya is the one who made the truck disappear when she was recalling him in her SS) and the fact that his magic abilities are restricted by the military, it's really surprising that they can come close to the reality of which clan Tatsuya belongs to but not the rest.
I don't think She hadn't realize, as you say in the SS Mio visit Saegusa House (from Summaries), She said she is afraid of go deeper cuz in the process could hurt someone (not quite clear these parts) and I as pointed, we still like 95% blind about after Japan vs Asian Alliance War (far I know took like 3 days overturn almost defeat by Japan to wipe AA Navy Fleet), I think the maths are very easy, She saw cuz her technique Tats "erase" the truck, remember the locusts erasing by black mobile suit with 2 silver Cads and later Miyuki rescue on air and "heal" (I know the details but I just based on Miyuki explaining) Kirihara and Isora, Tats was using his mobile suit and opened his helmet, so if you heard after about some Demon God which wipe enemies troops and heal friends, well 2+2=4, I think Mayumi should know more when 3rd Intel Division was after Tats steps on Vamps Arc, but again I am blind there, it just preliminary conclusions based on summaries and the logical development under my point of view, of the story line.   
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« Reply #2964 on: January 07, 2013, 01:43:09 PM »
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tbh It's really weird that his close friends especially Mayumi still hadn't come to the conclusion that Tatsuya is the guy who used both disintegration and restoration magic on the battlefield agains the chinese and completely obliterated them, they already know about how secretive Tatsuya is, which just makes you wonder how many of his abilities is he really hiding add to that the fact that he can heal other people's wounds EXACTLY like the guy who massacred the chinese in battle by decomposing them and their vehicules(Mayumi even thinks that Tatsuya is the one who made the truck disappear when she was recalling him in her SS) and the fact that his magic abilities are restricted by the military, it's really surprising that they can come close to the reality of which clan Tatsuya belongs to but not the rest.
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« Reply #2963 on: January 07, 2013, 11:50:35 AM »
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I give up. Let's agree to not agree
I'm getting tired to look all over the places to try to convince you, doesn't feel like you'll agree anyway.
I should have rephrased myself for Non-systematic Magic though, it's a type of magic whose goal is to directly manipulate the Psion. That's how they introduced it.
Goal of Systematic Magic is to alter reality.
Anyway, like I said, I give up.


Btw, not only CAD but all electronics overheat and break if you try to go over their limit, at worst, some even blows up
Though that is usually in things they can do. Overclocking your RAM over the limit they tell you and the thing will overheat.
That kind of limit is something else though. Trying to do something they are not made to is closer to the limit I was talking about.
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« Reply #2962 on: January 07, 2013, 11:24:44 AM »
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I always talk at least Mayumi knew before Kirihara and Isora miracle, Tats could windstand damage to his body, this should be from 9 Schools competitions and before Yokohama event timeline, here is from SS Student Council Elections (October 2095):
Summaries by @Raptor, source: don't know if from web, magazine or vol 5:
She didn't know about his regeneration, she simply thought he had some technique to mitigate damage. Completely different things. At least, that's what I got from your post.
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« Reply #2961 on: January 07, 2013, 11:12:33 AM »
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I think you may have the timeline mixed up a bit. I can see all those facts that you pulled out are after the monolith code. At that time no one knows tats restoration. In fact, I know afterwards miyuki explained tats ability to restore foreign objects, but she said nothing about his self restoration. Anyways, all your other facts are after the nine school competition.

I always talk at least Mayumi knew before Kirihara and Isora miracle, Tats could windstand damage to his body, this should be from 9 Schools competitions and before Yokohama event timeline, here is from SS Student Council Elections (October 2095):
Summaries by @Raptor, source: don't know if from web, magazine or vol 5:
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« Reply #2960 on: January 07, 2013, 11:09:08 AM »
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The point we are discussing is whether he can get the different types needed for Decomposition or not in a specialized CAD IF it requires different types. No matter how good he is in Software, he can't break the limit of using only one Group of a Hardware unless he tunes the hardware. No matter how efficient his systems and Activation Sequences are, he can't make the Hardware do something it cannot do. Just like no matter how great the CADs and efficient his Activation Sequence are, he cannot break the limit of his Artificial Magic Computation Area. Software lets you use more of the machine's potential but doesn’t let you break its limit (unless you overheat and are willing to break the thing). So honestly, no matter how good he is at software, it is irrevelent in our argument which is why I insisted in the hardware tuning part. Also, he said that the technology used in Nine School Tournament about combining the merits of Specialized and normal CAD to let them cast multiple Groups at Specialized level wasn't made by him but by Germany last year so it didn’t exist when he was 13 and he said he didn’t make it
I think his magic falls within the category limitation but leaving that aside, there is nothing in the novel that indicates a specialised CAD's hardware would overheat if you try and surpass the multiple magic group activation limit. The facts are generalised CADs have less powerful processors. And CADs improve the casting of the magic activation loaded in them. And Tatsuya uses CADs to improve the BS magic he casts.

Non-systematic magic is just the direct manipulation of Psions directly despite being called Magic and doesn't need Magic Sequence.
All magic spells can be ultimately described as just the direct manipulation of psions, not only nonsystematic magic. So I don't see this statement as a valid argument.


I'm not sure if all don't need AS but GD shouldn't. The Composite Psion Wave he used on Hattori back in Volume 1 required him to give the Oscillation attribute to the wave to control the wavelengths so that needed it. GD is said to not go through the Idea neither which is needed for all normal magic. Tatsuya also used it perfectly fine when he 13 without a CAD. It's a spell that doesn't require processing powers, otherwise, his Articial one can't handle it and his borned one can't do it. Also, Ichiyou and Kichijouji say that his non-systematic spells are rather "ancient" (influenced by his master I guess) and Ancient spells were all meant to be cast without CAD originally.
CADs only replace other magic activation rituals for a digitised version and can greatly improve the casting of magic, they are not required for magic. There must be some set of parameters to focus the psion shells for the G. Dem. spell otherwise it would just be a wild unguided fog of psions like during cast jamming. These parameters are likely the blueprint that is loaded when nonsystematic magic is used with CADs.

If you are a magician you can manipulate magic particles. Unless there has been some other human part besides the magic calculation area mentioned that manipulates psions, it is still this that area that would be used to manipulate Gram Demolition magic. Both BS and and Normal calculation areas can manipulate psions to produce specialised or regular magic. There is no reason why their function of manipulating psions must crash since they are required to give direction to psions for nonsystematic magic.
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« Reply #2959 on: January 07, 2013, 10:02:10 AM »
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Sorry, I still think you are understating Suzune's comments about his abilities when compared to Chiaki but lets step back a bit here. CADs only improve magic casting by optimising the activation, to reduce stress and raise casting speed. His raw power comes from his natural abilities. He only had to customise the CAD to his liking and customise it's software to help improve his magic casting. That is also part of the tuning I thought we were talking about, not just beefing up the CADs hardware specs. I believe the software relating to the activation sequence is the most important.

I'll copy you and go back to the original point.


My second point is that even if they fell under several types, I doubt such a limitation would apply to his heavily customised personal CAD, from his skills shown with generalised CADs in the 9 schools arc.

The point we are discussing is whether he can get the different types needed for Decomposition or not in a specialized CAD IF it requires different types. No matter how good he is in Software, he can't break the limit of using only one Group of a Hardware unless he tunes the hardware. No matter how efficient his systems and Activation Sequences are, he can't make the Hardware do something it cannot do. Just like no matter how great the CADs and efficient his Activation Sequence are, he cannot break the limit of his Artificial Magic Computation Area. Software lets you use more of the machine's potential but doesn’t let you break its limit (unless you overheat and are willing to break the thing). So honestly, no matter how good he is at software, it is irrevelent in our argument which is why I insisted in the hardware tuning part. Also, he said that the technology used in Nine School Tournament about combining the merits of Specialized and normal CAD to let them cast multiple Groups at Specialized level wasn't made by him but by Germany last year so it didn’t exist when he was 13 and he said he didn’t make it

From when Tatsuya 1st visits Yakumo's temple in vol 1 B-T has the CAD activation ritual contains the blueprint for magic. I agree G. Demolition is not phenomena altering magic, but its still described as a magic spell

Please don't drop Sequence, blueprint for Magic Sequence and speeds up building the Magic Sequence, not magic, it makes a huge difference in the argument.
Non-systematic magic is just the manipulation of Psions directly despite being called Magic.
I'm not sure if all don't need AS but GD shouldn't. The Composite Psion Wave he used on Hattori back in Volume 1 required him to give the Oscillation attribute to the wave to control the wavelengths it needed. GD is said to not go through the Idea neither which is needed for all normal magic.
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« Reply #2958 on: January 07, 2013, 09:57:41 AM »
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Yeah, you are right, but still its the same effect about MayumixTats relationship course, at least from Mayumi side.
Like I said, is like in front of your eyes someone was hit and just stumble to keep walking, I think was ZeroUshima whom talk about Katsuto personality, also remind we talk events on august 2095, i think (don't remember well) to Student Council Elections she ready add "healing ability" to Tats could do, also on Vamps Arc, Kuduo took more showing role when goes to get the Vamps and finally got one of 2, the other was taken by Kurubane, so far we don't have web arc translated to know exactly or at least close enough to understand the aftermath of Yokohama, how Tats companions and friends took all shocking events and after see Miyuki cocytus among her other abilities or Tats Military involvement with rumored remarkable black ops ghost unit, Saegusa, Juumongi, Chiba at least will understand wtf this mean (the link between Tats and 101st), including the fact of the seal Miyuki has over him (somebody said its was like storm of psions, so hard to not believe Mayumi and others not notices these changes on Tats).

BTW: On Double Seven I just think Takuma its really dumb enough to compete with a snail, I mean, I think Miyuki is REALLY unmerciful when someone target her dear Oni Sama.   

I think you may have the timeline mixed up a bit. I can see all those facts that you pulled out are after the monolith code. At that time no one knows tats restoration. In fact, I know afterwards miyuki explained tats ability to restore foreign objects, but she said nothing about his self restoration. Anyways, all your other facts are after the nine school competition.
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« Reply #2957 on: January 07, 2013, 09:29:22 AM »
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Oh, I wasn't aware who the Translator is.
Do I include Japanese text and why it's wrong or just point it out?
Dreyakis is the Translator 

Please don't pick a fight with Dreyakis he's doing a fine job for us who can't read the original like you can. I know this causes differences but I'm happy just being able to get the general idea. Besides all translations are difficult as I'm sure you know so cut him some slack

totally agree with you.

i'm satisfied, as long as i can get the general idea 
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« Reply #2956 on: January 07, 2013, 09:14:18 AM »
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wait. On the topic of gram demolition. Isn't it a burst of densely packed psion?

If so, then there cannot be an activation sequence or a magic sequence. Is that not correct?

there are magic spells that do not need to have activation sequences to be called magic spells right?
I don't think the fact its a spell using a mass of psions means it cannot have an activation sequence, since all spells are made of psions. Since a CAD can be used to improve the casting of gram demolition it means an activation sequence can be loaded with a magic blueprint for this counter-magic spell.
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« Reply #2955 on: January 07, 2013, 09:13:38 AM »
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not entirely sure what you are trying to say, but if you thinking the likes of the student council understood what happened, then that would be wrong. Mayumi never said "what was that", she said "what the hell happened". She was in panic as to why tats came out unscathed when he got hit with 16 high level explosions. Of course no one truly knew the reason, so Katsuto said the most logical explanation and that is tats may have some form of antiquated taijutsu technique that could strengthen his body. He ended this off with "magic is not the only miracle out there".

Yeah, you are right, but still its the same effect about MayumixTats relationship course, at least from Mayumi side.
Like I said, is like in front of your eyes someone was hit and just stumble to keep walking, I think was ZeroUshima whom talk about Katsuto personality, also remind we talk events on august 2095, i think (don't remember well) to Student Council Elections she ready add "healing ability" to Tats could do, also on Vamps Arc, Kuduo took more showing role when goes to get the Vamps and finally got one of 2, the other was taken by Kurubane, so far we don't have web arc translated to know exactly or at least close enough to understand the aftermath of Yokohama, how Tats companions and friends took all shocking events and after see Miyuki cocytus among her other abilities or Tats Military involvement with rumored remarkable black ops ghost unit, Saegusa, Juumongi, Chiba at least will understand wtf this mean (the link between Tats and 101st), including the fact of the seal Miyuki has over him (somebody said its was like storm of psions, so hard to not believe Mayumi and others not notices these changes on Tats).

BTW: On Double Seven I just think Takuma its really dumb enough to compete with a snail, I mean, I think Miyuki is REALLY unmerciful when someone target her dear Oni Sama.   
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« Reply #2954 on: January 07, 2013, 08:59:59 AM »
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wait. On the topic of gram demolition. Isn't it a burst of densely packed psion?

If so, then there cannot be an activation sequence or a magic sequence. Is that not correct?

there are magic spells that do not need to have activation sequences to be called magic spells right?
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« Reply #2953 on: January 07, 2013, 08:55:43 AM »
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Not planning to, I do respect him for being willing to put all the time into it, I don't have a quarter of that willpower. Since he is translating from chinese, it's not necessarily his fault anyway. didn't think someone would tell him though, I didn't mind if the translations stayed that way honestly.

Nah, rather than seeing your comments as an attack, I see this as opportunities to catch areas I missed or gray areas that I wasn't sure of in the first place. Rather than having MKnR being simply one person's perspective on the text, I value the chance to bring in other experts on the languages to help refine the process.

If there is anything odd, by all means let me know. At the end of the day, my ego takes a backseat to delivering the best possible translation of the original text.

EDIT: BTW, I got your message, so I'll be looking over those areas sometime later today.
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« Reply #2952 on: January 07, 2013, 08:54:28 AM »
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Not planning to, I do respect him for being willing to put all the time into it, I don't have a quarter of that willpower. Since he is translating from chinese, it's not necessarily his fault anyway. didn't think someone would tell him though, I didn't mind if the translations stayed that way honestly.

you answered him well. I can really see the difficulty in translating something like mahouka when it takes me a few reads just to kind of get what is happening. People who can read the original material are going to have their own interpretation on what the lines are saying.

honestly, japanese lines will sound weird when translated to english due to differences in grammar and sentence structures. Especially mahouka with all its technical jargon. So what Dreyakis is doing, is to give some leniency and try to modify for easier comprehension. He is doing superb. I got no complaints. In fact I got no right to; being able to read such an in depth world and discuss it with you guys is all I need. Plus it spreads the love :3
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« Reply #2951 on: January 07, 2013, 08:47:04 AM »
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So, he is not exactly at pro level so naturally, under the level of Sanada that made the CAD he was using. He did not exaclty have the equipment to tune the hardware required at the cottage neither.
In fact, he says that the Moval Suit (Is it Moval from Move or Mobal from Mobile? whatever) and stuff, Sanada made something better than he can do. So his skills being under Sanada is a must and the CAD is made by Sanada. Expecting him to do a better job than Sanada for hardware is a bit... It's also the reason why Suzune tells Chiaki that she can win against him during the second year when the classes are around hardware instead. His knowledge about hardware is not that high if he can get be surpassed by Chiaki. Miyuki also says that he's playing the CAD's System when he has time in Volume 8, p139. You can't pass the Hardware's limit with only Software, you can only get closer to the Hardware's current limits.
Sorry, I still think you are understating Suzune's comments about his abilities when compared to Chiaki but lets step back a bit here. CADs only improve magic casting by optimising the activation, to reduce stress and raise casting speed. His raw power comes from his natural abilities. He only had to customise the CAD to his liking and customise it's software to help improve his magic casting. That is also part of the tuning I thought we were talking about, not just beefing up the CADs hardware specs. I believe the software relating to the activation sequence is the most important.

 
Why would you need an Activation Sequence whose purpose is to build a Magic Sequence that Gram Demolition doesn't have? That's all Activation Sequence does. Gram Demolition doesn't have a Magic Sequence so it doesn't need an Activation Sequence to build a Magic Sequence it doesn't need.
From when Tatsuya 1st visits Yakumo's temple in vol 1 B-T has the CAD activation ritual contains the blueprint for magic. I agree G. Demolition is not phenomena altering magic, but its still described as a magic spell. When Cardinal George was shocked that Tatsuya altered his activation sequence so quickly before their match, he comments about what activation sequences he knew was installed in Tats' CADs in the previous matches. His thoughts here indicate one had a nonsystematic activation sequence installed.  

To be honest, If he truly knew about the whole story of the okinawa attack and tats abilities, this statement would be quite odd.

"Sometime in the future, he will become our country's invaluable military asset along with the scion of the Ichijou Family.

kazama corrects him in the "future" section by explaining how he is already an invaluable military asset. One of only two in japan. If kudou truly knew what tats is capable of, he wouldn't be so careless as to make that statement.

In conclusion, I definitely agree that kudou is a key figure in the military and that he is granted to many of the confidential information and access to the latest of research. But I am not sure if he knows all there is to it, especially on all the abilities of a non registered war level magician.
I also agree he probably doesn't know everything as 3 years on now, Tatsuya has a CAD that allows him to nuke countries across oceans. Its only another possibility I've suggested because besides his gram demolition, its the only other thing I can think of in Tatsuya's match that might link to Kudou's comment about powerful.
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« Reply #2950 on: January 07, 2013, 08:20:09 AM »
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Please don't pick a fight with Dreyakis he's doing a fine job for us who can't read the original like you can. I know this causes differences but I'm happy just being able to get the general idea. Besides all translations are difficult as I'm sure you know so cut him some slack

Not planning to, I do respect him for being willing to put all the time into it, I don't have a quarter of that willpower. Since he is translating from chinese, it's not necessarily his fault anyway. didn't think someone would tell him though, I didn't mind if the translations stayed that way honestly.
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« Reply #2949 on: January 07, 2013, 08:06:03 AM »
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Oh, I wasn't aware who the Translator is.
Do I include Japanese text and why it's wrong or just point it out?
Please don't pick a fight with Dreyakis he's doing a fine job for us who can't read the original like you can. I know this causes differences but I'm happy just being able to get the general idea. Besides all translations are difficult as I'm sure you know so cut him some slack
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« Reply #2948 on: January 07, 2013, 07:56:30 AM »
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Well, I spend sometime trying elaborate nice post and   something happened the moment i went to publish, put it simple: didn't work, so, the whole post got lost  

Anyway, trying doing quick:Its not on Vol 5, not sure its only Web release or have been on Magazine like double 7, but you could find here in the topic.

I think its more simple, the author wrote Yamanaka and Fujibashi dialog, but he did Mayumi exclaiming with pale face to Katsuto: "What was that??" or something like that, everyone saw an unknown WTF guy from a replacement weed team frontally fight with a renowned War hero and the heir of one of the 10 Clans (Elite of the Elite, please keep on mind these people have generations improving by any thinkable method their genetics line) and to made it worse on the all conditions suppose to being favorable to 3rd High, so, you only need battle experience or very sharp common sense to see this unknown receive front 16 illegally (cuz was more strong than allowed by the competitions rule) impacts, 2 of them on his body and just stumble briefly to get max speed and take down the adversary, so, what if you see someone being hit by a shotgun twice and just wake immediately without a single brush?, so someone like Kuduo, Koichi, Mayumi or Katsuto among experienced people will understand "something" happened, the fact they don't see activation spell just add more fuel, not weird they retrieve the info like when Tats and team from Mari accident (I mean 10 Clans or others), BTW, that match was probably the ignition spark of the Koichi interest over Tats, the talks in the SS after Scorched Halloween reveal his guessing s and its matter of time to connect the dots, cuz was like the 90s Olimpic USA Team (Jordan era) loosing to replacement low rank team.

@Mostraboy, based in the translations I have: in the same SS, Mayumi notice her father overflowing interest and she just being afraid of to known deeper, but she said: "Like always just need to ask" and the fact her father interest on Tats, BTW its the same when Koichi ask her to bring Miyuki and by the way "that boy too" with smile like a wolf, so she think it was his original purpose.
On Vamps arc, we know the Saegusa doings about to find out or maybe confirm Tats status by Ericka brother and other events.
I just think its more than probable we see Shiba siblings interview with Koichi, but its take time since Koichi request (made it starting Nov 2095 and current timeline its April 2096), so could be He take easy until have ground over Tats cover, it will be shocking if Koichi on the interview ask about Maya, something like  : How are your aunt Maya?.   

not entirely sure what you are trying to say, but if you thinking the likes of the student council understood what happened, then that would be wrong. Mayumi never said "what was that", she said "what the hell happened". She was in panic as to why tats came out unscathed when he got hit with 16 high level explosions. Of course no one truly knew the reason, so Katsuto said the most logical explanation and that is tats may have some form of antiquated taijutsu technique that could strengthen his body. He ended this off with "magic is not the only miracle out there".
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« Reply #2947 on: January 07, 2013, 07:35:26 AM »
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Well, I spend sometime trying elaborate nice post and  something happened the moment i went to publish, put it simple: didn't work, so, the whole post got lost   

Anyway, trying doing quick:
about mayumi ss,,
is it included in vol 5??
or its only in the web chapter??
Its not on Vol 5, not sure its only Web release or have been on Magazine like double 7, but you could find here in the topic.

Well it's true that some magics already existed in theory before being put to practice but in V04CH10 Yamanaka said "Ah, no — I didn't see anything. Of course I didn't see Shiba Tatsuya-kun use some sort of theoretically impossible Self-Restoration ability. Seriously, his endurance is superhuman. How interesting!"
So Self Restoration is something thought of as impossible be it in practice or in theory.
it cannot be self restoration that kudou was talking about.
first of all, his self restoration ability speed is so fast that no one in the area could see the activation sequence being released. The only ones who know what happened are the 101st, not because they saw it, but because they know what happened.

Now the reason is when yamanaka says

"Neither did I. I doubt Kudou-sama noticed either. That being said, the speed of his Self-Restoration ability has long since surpassed the realms of human cognition speeds."

Prior to this, they were contemplating on tats using the "eye of the spirits", but it was refuted when fujibayashi stated that using this secret may fool all those third rate magicians, but not in the eyes of that gentlemen (refering to kudou). So its unlikely that kudou knows about his birth abilities.
it cannot be self restoration that kudou was talking about.

first of all, his self restoration ability speed is so fast that no one in the area could see the activation sequence being released. The only ones who know what happened are the 101st, not because they saw it, but because they know what happened.

By successful attempt, I thought it was his flash cast, but it was shown that tats hid it by integrating oscillation magic into his CAD. So all that is left maybe his position as an artificial magician.

I think its more simple, the author wrote Yamanaka and Fujibashi dialog, but he did Mayumi exclaiming with pale face to Katsuto: "What was that??" or something like that, everyone saw an unknown WTF guy from a replacement weed team frontally fight with a renowned War hero and the heir of one of the 10 Clans (Elite of the Elite, please keep on mind these people have generations improving by any thinkable method their genetics line) and to made it worse on the all conditions suppose to being favorable to 3rd High, so, you only need battle experience or very sharp common sense to see this unknown receive front 16 illegally (cuz was more strong than allowed by the competitions rule) impacts, 2 of them on his body and just stumble briefly to get max speed and take down the adversary, so, what if you see someone being hit by a shotgun twice and just wake immediately without a single brush?, so someone like Kuduo, Koichi, Mayumi or Katsuto among experienced people will understand "something" happened, the fact they don't see activation spell just add more fuel, not weird they retrieve the info like when Tats and team from Mari accident (I mean 10 Clans or others), BTW, that match was probably the ignition spark of the Koichi interest over Tats, the talks in the SS after Scorched Halloween reveal his guessing s and its matter of time to connect the dots, cuz was like the 90s Olimpic USA Team (Jordan era) loosing to replacement low rank team.

@Mostraboy, based in the translations I have: in the same SS, Mayumi notice her father overflowing interest and she just being afraid of to known deeper, but she said: "Like always just need to ask" and the fact her father interest on Tats, BTW its the same when Koichi ask her to bring Miyuki and by the way "that boy too" with smile like a wolf, so she think it was his original purpose.
On Vamps arc, we know the Saegusa doings about to find out or maybe confirm Tats status by Ericka brother and other events.
I just think its more than probable we see Shiba siblings interview with Koichi, but its take time since Koichi request (made it starting Nov 2095 and current timeline its April 2096), so could be He take easy until have ground over Tats cover, it will be shocking if Koichi on the interview with Tatsuya and Miyuki, ask about Maya, something like  : How are your aunt Maya?.   
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