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Author Topic: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-16+  (Read 1087364 times)

purezento, Gottlieb, TodADarKSky, paptimus, logon99, MarioSilva and 15 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4614 on: June 07, 2013, 06:57:50 PM »
Even if you can tell the content, you can't tell how long ago it happend... that's not really relevant argument. According to what you say isolation of emotion connected to person or event is impossible ... and yet it happened in Tatsuya case. So from structure analysis standpoint identification is possible one way or the other ...

The discussion is about what was done to Maya, not Tatsuya. Miya said she couldn't identify which experiential memories held the three days of abuse. That's why she couldn't do a pinpoint operation—as she told Genzou. To be sure she got those three days, she had to convert all of Maya's experiences until Miya's intervention into informational memories.

And don't put words into my mouth. I didn't post anything about "isolation of emotion connected to person or event is impossible." Miya said that she couldn't identify the contents of a memory; all she could tell was the type of memory it was. That was at age 12. Whether she gained the ability to identify the contents with further practice is unknown.

If you want to discuss Tatsuya's case, keep in mind that Miya was older when she operated on him and could have learned more about her abilities by that time, because she used her magic so frequently. Also, what Miya attempted to do to Tatsuya was different from what she did to Maya, so the results aren't comparable.

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4613 on: June 07, 2013, 06:10:24 PM »
When i 1st saw 'STARS' i assumed it meant the stars on the current usa flag, but now im not sure but i think it is reference the their system of ranking their military, since we do see about the planet class  people being mentioned. Its not an explanation lol just wanted to add my own thoughts. And yeah angie is the high commander is sirius a name of a star of planet? since her and that other guy from their past both got the title sirius for being the most powerful so i was wondering what it is and why that was chosen  :huh:

I kind of pointed it some time ago ... this is magic classification independent from military seniority protocol. Stars follow high commander that leads 12 captains and their respective units. Most likely each unit have either fixed task or are assigned to specific areas(more typical for us military organization). True identity of members seems to follow clandestine rules. Origins of name Stars is not disclosed, it might be reference to stardom in terms of unit capability worldwide or author came up with cool ranking first and name later. There might be also some reference to five-pointed white star in US military. If in original LN stars in not translated term it might be abrevation of formation full name  ... (for example Strategic Technology And Research Service)

Star class is most likely highest magican class and equivalent of military commissioned officers. They are most likely primary combatants in the whole formation, class follow power ranking though how that power is determined remains unknown. Strongest magician becames commander of the formation and little information suggest that following magicians are assigned to units from one to twelve in a way corresponding to their ranking. Formal title follow military rank,first name, star name, star brightness rank corressponds to magician power ranking. Total number of star class magicians remains unknown though it is indirecly confirmed to exceed mentioned 13 ...

Planet class is second known class within stars and equivalent of military warrant officers. They seems to follow similar ranking in terms of their respective specialization that most likely coresponds to planets in the solar system. Most likely they are agents and various type specialized support personel for the main unit.

 :bingo:

The problem isn't that there were too many memories to change. It was that Miya had no way of telling which memories contained the three days of rape and torture. As Miya told Maya:So to be able to be sure she got those three days, she had to change all of Maya's memories until then from experiential to informational.

Even if you can tell the content, you can't tell how long ago it happend... that's not really relevant argument. According to what you say isolation of emotion connected to person or event is impossible ... and yet it happened in Tatsuya case. So from structure analysis standpoint identification is possible one way or the other ...

 :gokuraku:

Offline XFire

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4612 on: June 07, 2013, 12:09:30 PM »
I think she was unable to differentiate experience and knowledge. There are some instances when just a bit of information, even if it's not from experience itself, can trigger something that Maya will recall about the rape. Miya had to alter other knowledge and experience that may lead to Maya recalling that event.  Thus she was just grasping straws when she used her magic and a mishap occurred thereby resulting in "killing" Maya.  Might just be me though.  :wahaha:

No, she turned all of her "experience" into "knowledge". Miya did so on purpose because it was the only way to restore Maya's sanity. However, the person Maya used to be no longer exists, hence she said Miya "killed" her.

Offline sinnershot67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4611 on: June 07, 2013, 11:14:40 AM »
I think she was unable to differentiate experience and knowledge. There are some instances when just a bit of information, even if it's not from experience itself, can trigger something that Maya will recall about the rape. Miya had to alter other knowledge and experience that may lead to Maya recalling that event.  Thus she was just grasping straws when she used her magic and a mishap occurred thereby resulting in "killing" Maya.  Might just be me though.  :wahaha:

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4610 on: June 07, 2013, 10:29:50 AM »
My point is conversion of all existing memories is herculian task compered to 3 days worth of it while the same problems are involved ... and we know she wasn't able to do that in more simple case hence instead of manipulating divine amount of memories its carrrier was modified to simplify the problem ... though that brings consequnces and from following conversation it looks like both father and Miya understand them ...

The problem isn't that there were too many memories to change. It was that Miya had no way of telling which memories contained the three days of rape and torture. As Miya told Maya:
Quote (selected)
"I cannot peek inside the contents. What memory is stored where is something I cannot know. What is known to me is whether a stored memory is 'experience' or 'knowledge' only."
So to be able to be sure she got those three days, she had to change all of Maya's experiential memories until then into informational memories.

Thanks for ch.2, Dreyakis!

Offline Ellimist

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4609 on: June 07, 2013, 07:31:52 AM »
... so short ... question: Does originaly LN use Stars, STARS or is it translated term ?
 :huh:




 When i 1st saw 'STARS' i assumed it meant the stars on the current usa flag, but now im not sure but i think it is reference the their system of ranking their military, since we do see about the planet class  people being mentioned. Its not an explanation lol just wanted to add my own thoughts. And yeah angie is the high commander is sirius a name of a star of planet? since her and that other guy from their past both got the title sirius for being the most powerful so i was wondering what it is and why that was chosen  :huh:

Replied: June 05, 2013, 10:39:08 PM
Belay that. I guess the author did really think over the whole series before writing it lol. Sirius is apparently the most brightest star in the sky http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/sirius

Offline blackwhite67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4608 on: June 07, 2013, 12:37:32 AM »
There's more.

Quote (selected)
Volume 9 Chapter 3 - 68/102 (June 9th)

Offline krimety

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4607 on: June 06, 2013, 10:25:27 PM »
 :XD:  SWEET!!!  Thanks Drey!   :wahaha:

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4606 on: June 06, 2013, 10:17:41 PM »
... so short ... question: Does originaly LN use Stars, STARS or is it translated term ?
 :huh:


Offline Ellimist

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4605 on: June 06, 2013, 09:21:34 PM »
yaay drey!!
but i cant read all of it, science exam tomorrow  :nonono: :dark: :omgnooo:

I got Mathematics p1  :nonono: :snoozing: :ronin:

Offline FRS

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4604 on: June 06, 2013, 08:32:53 PM »
Thanks dreyakis  !

Offline BloodPrincess

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4603 on: June 06, 2013, 07:37:57 PM »
yaay drey!!

but i cant read all of it, science exam tomorrow  :nonono: :dark: :omgnooo:

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4602 on: June 06, 2013, 04:49:48 PM »
Chapter 2 is out

Thanks Dreyakis  :hi:

Offline Ellimist

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4601 on: June 06, 2013, 03:07:48 PM »
translation of this volume looks soooooooooooooo far away

 :dark:

lol it looks like dreyakis is back  :huh:

Thanks dreyakis for chapter 2 :banzai: :yay: :pushup:

Offline Rac

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4600 on: June 06, 2013, 12:11:53 PM »
Everytime I try to read summaries or spoilers from a poster in this forum. All I see is this blank area without any text, is this a known bugg or do I need to post more in order see them?


You should be able to read them now. But, I also recommend reading the introductions thread.

Offline marids

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4599 on: June 06, 2013, 09:59:28 AM »
Everytime I try to read summaries or spoilers from a poster in this forum. All I see is this blank area without any text, is this a known bugg or do I need to post more in order see them?


read the introductions main sticky thread. you read it before using this forum site.

http://www.jcafe24.net/index.php/topic,21906.0.html

Offline Satizzz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4598 on: June 06, 2013, 07:29:33 AM »
Everytime I try to read summaries or spoilers from a poster in this forum. All I see is this blank area without any text, is this a known bugg or do I need to post more in order see them?

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4597 on: June 04, 2013, 09:10:26 PM »
I took this to mean Miya changed the classification of Maya's "experiential" data into "informational" data. However, Miya didn't change how Maya processes her experiences. So after Maya awoke, she started to accumulate experiential memories again; but since she no longer had experiential memories of Miya and everyone else, she's like a selfish newborn baby who has yet to establish emotional connections. Since she lost the feelings developed through her earlier interactions with her family and peers, Miya's emotional development was stunted, but she should be able to develop friendship and other emotional connections, and even fall in love.

I know what you mean but ... Miya herself said that manipulation of 3 days worth of 'memories' is impossible to her due to precision involved(not because it is impossible at all so the way to discern them likely exist). This also means that such manipulation of 12 years worth of memories is impossible for similar reason, not to mention number of such 'memories' (Tatsuya ability to cast magic simultaneously on ~25 information bodies is considered godlike).

Thats why instead of working on singular memories it was suggested to work on whole 'memory' aspect/part 'experience'(located in one place) and convert it to 'knowledge'. (narrow number of objects for modification and make precision unnecessary; as a sidenote amygdala is thought to be involved in 'emotional' memory encoding and storage process).

My point is conversion of all existing memories is herculian task compered to 3 days worth of it while the same problems are involved ... and we know she wasn't able to do that in more simple case hence instead of manipulating divine amount of memories its carrrier was modified to simplify the problem ... though that brings consequnces and from following conversation it looks like both father and Miya understand them ...

:huh:  

in prep for the next volume out next week

translation of this volume looks soooooooooooooo far away

 :dark:

Quote (selected)
Volume 9 Chapter 2 - 51/67 (Today.) Dreyakis (talk) 10:58, 5 June 2013 (CDT)

 :wahaha:

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4596 on: June 04, 2013, 04:48:00 PM »
now we know behind the scene bout guardian system, maya's problemo, now what i wanna to know is, what is the ground of yotsuba and saegusa has bad blood, was it only maya's kidnapin' or merely 'cuz yotsuba gain more power than rest other clan?
After browsing V9 dets in prep for the next volume out next week, I found that Mayumi touches on this when she meets up with Katsuto to discuss the vamp incidents. While she didn't know what the details were she believes that her father may be at fault and he won't apologise, and mentions that the Yotsuba doesn't really mingle with the other Master clans and forged their way to the top on their power alone.  Its seems like they are a bunch of lone wolves while the other Master clans seem to rely on one another more.

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4595 on: June 04, 2013, 12:14:22 PM »
hmmmmmm 'memories' and 'memory' used there are not one and the same ... During her explanation to Maya, Miya not even once refered to 'memories' in plural form which would indicate past nature and multiple events somehow connected to experience. Instead she use general/psychology term 'memory' which is defined as process by which information is encoded, stored, and retrieved. She does not talk about converting individual 'memories' but changing 'memory' storage type. While 'memories' may increase, 'memory' itself have limited storage capacity (due to neurons) and that storage capacity was reconfigurated along with the content - 'memories' from experience to knowledge. New 'memories' should be stored within that 'memory' storage capacity in a modified way. ... I think ...
 :huh:

The conversation between Genzou and Miya went:
Quote (selected)
"Don't take away the memories, separate the feelings from the memories. The memories of things people have done themselves naturally have emotions attached to them. Reconstruct 'the experiential memories' into 'informational memories'."
Don't take away the memory, take away the sense of reality from it.
"But Otou-sama, I cannot do such a precise operation. Although I could transmute all 'the experiential memories' Maya possesses into 'informational memories', reconstructing only those three days into 'informational memories'... manipulating 'memory' in such a way is something that is impossible for me."
Miya looked away as she answered. The rightness of what her father ordered, Miya understood with an acuity beyond that of a child. For that reason, her inability to do so with her power vexed her.
"Then change all of Maya's 'experiences' into 'information'."
I took this to mean Miya changed the classification of Maya's "experiential" data into "informational" data. However, Miya didn't change how Maya processes her experiences. So after Maya awoke, she started to accumulate experiential memories again; but since she no longer had experiential memories of Miya and everyone else, she's like a selfish newborn baby who has yet to establish emotional connections. Since she lost the feelings developed through her earlier interactions with her family and peers, Miya's emotional development was stunted, but she should be able to develop friendship and other emotional connections, and even fall in love.

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4594 on: June 03, 2013, 06:38:08 PM »
The impression I got was that only the emotionally charged memories up to that point were changed to informational memories. However, after that point, the process for storing memories functioned normally, so the events Maya experienced after she woke up and saw Miya were stored with the usual emotional charge. But Maya was back at square one in terms of emotional development, like a newborn baby.

hmmmmmm 'memories' and 'memory' used there are not one and the same ... During her explanation to Maya, Miya not even once refered to 'memories' in plural form which would indicate past nature and multiple events somehow connected to experience. Instead she use general/psychology term 'memory' which is defined as process by which information is encoded, stored, and retrieved. She does not talk about converting individual 'memories' but changing 'memory' storage type. While 'memories' may increase, 'memory' itself have limited storage capacity (due to neurons) and that storage capacity was reconfigurated along with the content - 'memories' from experience to knowledge. New 'memories' should be stored within that 'memory' storage capacity in a modified way. ... I think ...
 :huh:

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4593 on: June 03, 2013, 08:21:31 AM »
No she still can have emotions, though i also wonder how she lives since it's like watching someone else's life being lived cos her capacity where she accumulates experiences was only changed to it would just be information but you dont need me to explain that whole thing  :maikka:

The impression I got was that only the emotionally charged memories up to that point were changed to informational memories. However, after that point, the process for storing memories functioned normally, so the events Maya experienced after she woke up and saw Miya were stored with the usual emotional charge. But Maya was back at square one in terms of emotional development, like a newborn baby.

Offline HasNoLove

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4592 on: June 03, 2013, 07:07:29 AM »
if you like H-manga, wincest obsiosly, deep snow chapter 2 allready out, its Raw course..

Offline nami san

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4591 on: June 03, 2013, 01:43:50 AM »
 :benkyo: new manga chapter

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4590 on: June 02, 2013, 07:06:50 AM »
About the nightmare of 2062, could it be possible that Maya don't have emotions like Tatsuya?

Both Maya and Tatsuya case are explained in different way making it a bit hard to establish definite answer but Maya explains it as ...

Quote (selected)
"Within the persona, there are various processes used to store memory. The memory of an individual person is not a single unit. Given that, the process for storing your own experiences and the way knowledge gained from texts and images accumulates into memory storage differ in form."

"I cannot peek inside the contents. What memory is stored where is something I cannot know. What is known to me is whether a stored memory is 'experience' or 'knowledge' only."

"...Your 'experiences' have been changed to 'knowledge'. The memory storage of experience has been transmuted into memory storage of knowledge... the shape of your memory has been reconfigured."

And volume one possess one interesting scene

Quote (selected)
With her head partially lowered with a pair of upturned, almond-shaped eyes, and in addition to that, a faint, sweet scent drifting toward him; Tatsuya became conscious of his own sexual excitement.
In the instant he was conscious of it, to the object called 'himself', it became a phenomenon born from inside of him, which was then severed from himself. His excitement was converted to mere information inside of him.

Following Maya explanation in this case phenomon called emotion/urge occured and instant later was stored as information insted of experience inside memory ...(though all will depend how we treat boundary between past and present) This might suggest that both Maya and Tatsuya case is indeed one and the same ...

 :huh:

Ps another thing that hit me along the way is mysterious Miya illness .... Magic differ in form however in terms of mechanics all magic is basicly the same. It makes little sense that her health deteriorated unlike all others magicians who also use magic(though maybe repeated state of magic overuse could lead to this). From ss we know however that Miya possessed ability to percive and analyze mental structures which is unique to her ... By itself it shouldn't be significant however (all indicates that) her son possess really similar ability of perception and analysis of structures. And during description of this ability it is mentioned that it has "dire consequnces" ... coincidence ?

Offline Ellimist

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4589 on: June 02, 2013, 05:42:39 AM »
About the nightmare of 2062, could it be possible that Maya don't have emotions like Tatsuya?

No she still can have emotions, though i also wonder how she lives since it's like watching someone else's life being lived cos her capacity where she accumulates experiences was only changed to it would just be information but you dont need me to explain that whole thing  :maikka:

Offline ichi1225

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4588 on: June 02, 2013, 01:32:41 AM »
About the nightmare of 2062, could it be possible that Maya don't have emotions like Tatsuya?

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4587 on: June 01, 2013, 11:13:37 PM »
In 10 days.

you mean volume or magazine ?

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4586 on: June 01, 2013, 09:33:37 PM »
so there is no processing chip installed in his brain   ?
i forget where i read it.
Earlier on in this topic the term 'chip' was used to describe the artificial magic processing area his mother gave him. It was just easier to use.

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4585 on: June 01, 2013, 08:02:04 PM »
What chip ? you wanna make Tatsuya a Terminator or smth ?

As a side note limbic system is psychiatry and neurology term for structures in an inner cortex heavly related to formation and recollection of memories as well as cognition and processing of emotions ... To me looks like Tatsuya is more emotionaly deprived version of Maya. It is worthy to point out that he don't have any memories of childhood or his sister. His emotions toward her are not attached to anything, they just exist (kind of inception like)...

so there is no processing chip installed in his brain   ?

i forget where i read it.

Offline HasNoLove

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4584 on: June 01, 2013, 02:39:49 PM »
hmm.. I see...

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4583 on: June 01, 2013, 12:42:22 PM »
now we know behind the scene bout guardian system, maya's problemo, now what i wanna to know is, what is the ground of yotsuba and saegusa has bad blood, was it only maya's kidnapin' or merely 'cuz yotsuba gain more power than rest other clan?(1-3,5-10)
I assume its probably to do with the kidnapping incident.  It could be the Yotsuba believed the Saegusa head or family could have done more to prevent it, or maybe the Saegusa took offence because Maya started to treat them coldly due to her loss of previous emotional attachment, or maybe when the engagement was broken off the Saegusa were expecting more explanations or a new Yotsuba bride, but the family decided to break off all contact to focus on carrying out their revenge and as a result their relationship soured.

Offline neoinfinity204

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4582 on: June 01, 2013, 11:50:48 AM »
now we know behind the scene bout guardian system, maya's problemo, now what i wanna to know is, what is the ground of yotsuba and saegusa has bad blood, was it only maya's kidnapin' or merely 'cuz yotsuba gain more power than rest other clan

It is most likely they fear the power the Yotsuba has acquired.  If a single stragetic class mage is capable of putting a family into the 10 clans it isn't surpising if the other clans fear what giving a Yotsuba 1 stragetic class mage would give their already powerful clan in terms of influence.  They are the most powerful of the 10 clans.  Miyuki will grow to be a world class mage which is pretty clear from how well she did againt Lina.  Tats genius/power + Miyuki and Maya (who will still be around when Miyuki becomes head) would be almost broken in terms of firepower.  The clan basically took a country out by itself without the firepower Tats can throw out and has only gotten more powerful since.  The 10 clans fear it will become "the Yotsuba then everyone else" which is really a possibility with both the clan advantage in tech and magical power.

 :wahaha: :wahaha:

Offline HasNoLove

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4581 on: June 01, 2013, 11:28:47 AM »
now we know behind the scene bout guardian system, maya's problemo, now what i wanna to know is, what is the ground of yotsuba and saegusa has bad blood, was it only maya's kidnapin' or merely 'cuz yotsuba gain more power than rest other clan?(1-3,5-10)
 :huh: :huh:

Offline blackwhite67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4580 on: June 01, 2013, 06:52:52 AM »
when will the new novel come out  :dark: :crybaby2:

In 10 days.

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4579 on: June 01, 2013, 03:28:25 AM »
when will the new novel come out  :dark: :crybaby2:

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4578 on: May 31, 2013, 06:56:26 PM »
yes, first  she takes change all of Maya's 'experiences' into 'information ( Genzou told her )

the second time she replace some of tatsuya's emotion with the Chip, etc. ( Maya told her )

she do that in full awareness although she had the option not to continue the experiment.

dunno if it's revenge or just coincidence   :wahaha:

What chip ? you wanna make Tatsuya a Terminator or smth ?

Quote (selected)
She used the forbidden Non-Systematic Magic 'Mental Design Interference', forcibly altering the area in the consciousness, most likely to create strong emotions called the limbic system by inputting a Magic Calculation Model, creating an artificial Magician.

As a side note limbic system is psychiatry and neurology term for structures in an inner cortex heavly related to formation and recollection of memories as well as cognition and processing of emotions ... To me looks like Tatsuya is more emotionaly deprived version of Maya. It is worthy to point out that he don't have any memories of childhood or his sister. His emotions toward her are not attached to anything, they just exist (kind of inception like)...

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4577 on: May 31, 2013, 04:53:07 PM »
Miya never really said it was an accident, contrary to that she said

This actualy suggest that emotions were subject of this operations and she had control over its contents as well as awerness of what she does ...  



yes, first  she takes change all of Maya's 'experiences' into 'information ( Genzou told her )

the second time she replace some of tatsuya's emotion with the Chip, etc. ( Maya told her )

she do that in full awareness although she had the option not to continue the experiment.

dunno if it's revenge or just coincidence   :wahaha:

Offline 4r2r

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4576 on: May 31, 2013, 04:42:52 PM »
hahaha

so from your point of view, Maya's thoughts and feelings as a human being has been damaged so bad ? :wahaha: i dunno if she is really evil  :XD:
yeah, probably Miya is also broken like her sister  :wahaha:
Tags like good or evil are superstition that will change depending on the perspective. AA soldiers view Tatsuya as Maheshvara but does that make him evil ? Nah, he just has his set of Five Ws (Who, What, When, Where, Why) that determine his actions. Miya and Maya are the same ... In Tatsuya and Maya case it is just by far easier to answer those questions ...

YES!! it probably was revenge against Miya but instead of 'killing' her own child i think just the experimenting on Tats itself that was the revenge, they wanted the experiment to succeed and obviously weren't planning on disabling/killing most of his emotions.

I used quotation mark so i meant it as in

Quote (selected)
"Therefore, before the memory of that rape could kill me, my elder sister killed me."

Miya never really said it was an accident, contrary to that she said

Quote (selected)
"Did Okaa-sama……intentionally choose for this to happen?"
Even though I was speaking myself, it felt like I heard someone else talking. It felt like a me which was not me was moving my body and asking questions.
"I obviously didn’t plan things out to that extent. However, I did think that if capacity was left only for one emotion, then it should be affection directed towards you. Tatsuya will be spending far more time with you, after all."

This actualy suggest that emotions were subject of this operations and she had control over its contents as well as awerness of what she does ... 


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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4575 on: May 31, 2013, 02:41:56 PM »
Do only i consider that Maya manipulated Miya into "killing" her own child in some twisted vengence ? it is creepy how many facts starts to click after that ... actualy scratch that i can't find anything that doesn't make sense in the whole LN ...

YES!! it probably was revenge against Miya but instead of 'killing' her own child i think just the experimenting on Tats itself that was the revenge, they wanted the experiment to succeed and obviously weren't planning on disabling/killing most of his emotions.

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4574 on: May 31, 2013, 11:14:59 AM »
It seems you had not read all my post, I'm not saying it was only a simple sexual abuse. I'm indirectly saying that, the institute fails for not keeping being able to keep their main objective at hand.
And if it is as complex as you mentioned, is it necessary for the sexual abuse? For once, if I'm the institute, I would just do whatever experiment on her body, once done, dispose (Doing unnecessary things increase risk failing the experiment). No need for the sexual abuse part nor the violence.
The event in the novel can be either one of the way:
-> It is a well planned and complex human manufacturing experimentation (contradictory because there was torture and sexual abuse)
-> It is a poorly executed plan (contradictory for being national level, basically a joke)

You seem to be saying here that the rape and torture were loss of control on the institute's part. If so, you're overlooking the fact that rape and torture are used to render the victims tractable. Maya probably fought back and tried to keep fighting while in captivity. It isn't unlikely the institute used rape and torture to deliberately break her spirit so they could experiment on her without further damage to the institute's personnel. As for her ovaries, they might have been extracted to harvest her eggs for genetic material.

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4573 on: May 30, 2013, 05:40:27 PM »
Do only i consider that Maya manipulated Miya into "killing" her own child in some twisted vengence ? it is creepy how many facts starts to click after that ... actualy scratch that i can't find anything that doesn't make sense in the whole LN ...

hahaha

so from your point of view, Maya's thoughts and feelings as a human being has been damaged so bad ? :wahaha: i dunno if she is really evil  :XD:
yeah, probably Miya is also broken like her sister  :wahaha:

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4572 on: May 30, 2013, 03:39:01 PM »
One particular thing i really don't like about this author is how he is always mentioning things and they are only explained in much later volumes. It's how pretty much most of this story was written.
that's how you build hype and make people excited enough to read it once it gets out. It is like mentality behind movie trailers ... movie can be crappy in itself but if trailer is good people will come and pay to watch it. If everything was explained from get go things would be relatively easy to predict, mystery keeps people with the franchise and at the same time allow some degree of freedom in plot development. And it is not like whole LN is like this ... things you mention concern long term yotsuba arc that will most likely go throughout whole mknr series. But even then when you start to connect the dots, question people motives, restore proper order of developments and look for hidden agendas you can more or less deduce general plot direction  ...

Offline neoinfinity204

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4571 on: May 30, 2013, 02:27:35 PM »
One particular thing i really don't like about this author is how he is always mentioning things and they are only explained in much later volumes. It's how pretty much most of this story was written.

I think that is pretty much true for every long series that has been planned out before hand.  Stories get boring if there is no teasers for what is to come.  It adds a sense of mystery to series about the world the story exists in.  I honestly can't think of a long series that is planned out properly that doesn't do that be it light novel, anime, manga, or any western series.

Offline Ellimist

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4570 on: May 30, 2013, 01:34:04 PM »
One particular thing i really don't like about this author is how he is always mentioning things and they are only explained in much later volumes. It's how pretty much most of this story was written.

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4569 on: May 30, 2013, 04:25:48 AM »
It seems you had not read all my post, I'm not saying it was only a simple sexual abuse. I'm indirectly saying that, the institute fails for not keeping being able to keep their main objective at hand.
And if it is as complex as you mentioned, is it necessary for the sexual abuse? For once, if I'm the institute, I would just do whatever experiment on her body, once done, dispose (Doing unnecessary things increase risk failing the experiment). No need for the sexual abuse part nor the violence.
The event in the novel can be either one of the way:
-> It is a well planned and complex human manufacturing experimentation (contradictory because there was torture and sexual abuse)
-> It is a poorly executed plan (contradictory for being national level, basically a joke)

Both the above events are full of contradiction, which is why, I'm questioning whether the institute know what they are doing? Or are they just a hoodlum.

More of the reason it sounds strange and stranger. And yes, I'm aware that Ovary is not the only reproduction organ, as I stated before, the lost of other reproductory organ (except ovary) can be easily substituted even with our current world technology.
You're still ignoring the fact it was an experiment. What actually caused the injuries, what was actually injured or what the actual experiment was left out either deliberately or due to laziness, and means our assumptions are still guess work. Your assumptions could be exactly what the author had in mind but I believe you are ignoring the scientic experiment part of what was in the novel and that magic or gene manipulation might have caused the irrecoverable injury. Maya's organs are not necessarily more integral to any national plan, than the importanc of using any method for exploring better techniques of producing magicians through experimentation would be.

She was a guinea pig.  The D7 intro explains that test tube magi-babies had high failure rates.  Producing better magicians would likely be the main aim but experiments can have unexpected results and if things went wrong they can just use a new body. If they knew exactly what the results would be it would not have been called a scientific experiment in the 1st place.

We don't know if the injuries are from abuse, the kidnap attempt, punishment, invasive surgery or what. The rape may not have been abusive or the cause of the injuries, separate experimentation might have been. It even have been gentle, but since its against her wishes its rape.   The Ten Master Clan system is one of paired marriages between powerful magicians, which have been forced in some cases as we know. Its that kind of world. She was just part of 1 of many depraved experiments.  Maybe they wanted to use gene or magic modification to increase the quality of magician offspring from regular conception. The deed itself could have been quite clinical-like, in a sterile room and done in proper modern lab research fashion with medical observation.

Since they mentioned how advanced regenerative body treatment is I assume her injuries received from the kidnapping attack, punishment, violent intercourse, subsequent attempts to escape or other invasive sampling, surgery and genetic/magic experimentation, whatever it might have been, have all been healed as much as possible but her body no longer works in conjunction properly to conceive.

But assumptions may be off since these are on the skeletal set of details we get.

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4568 on: May 29, 2013, 11:00:45 PM »
from your POV, it's Fair or not for maya ?

I belive she wasn't in a state to make such decision which was the reason for it. This was higly immoral decision to make but it was made in good faith, even Maya herself talk about both things like they are equaly evil ...

Quote (selected)
"Certainly, the memory of what was done me was too much for me to bear. In that condition, my spirit was dead."
"Maya..."
"Therefore, before the memory of that rape could kill me, my elder sister killed me."

Do only i consider that Maya manipulated Miya into "killing" her own child in some twisted vengence ? it is creepy how many facts starts to click after that ... actualy scratch that i can't find anything that doesn't make sense in the whole LN ...

:kukukuh:

PS duh ? lvl up ?... you evolved into regular ... sounds like pokemon name ... Regular i chooose you !! Reply Attack !! Quote Smash !!

 :nani:

Offline RaZi3l

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4567 on: May 29, 2013, 10:48:19 PM »
No, once again you are ignoring the statement it was a scientific experiment and that it was done in a modern magic research institute.  When Maya said her entire body was messed with including the insides, it indicates to me atleast more than just sexual abuse. You are assuming their experiment involved simple methods and ignoring all the other experiments that could have been done to any of her reproductive related organs before or after, to try and enhance results in a world filled with magical, cybernetic and genetic modification. And please note the ovaries are not the only organs involved in reproduction and may not actually be the problem. Anyway thats how I interpreted scientific experiment in magician manufacture.

It seems you had not read all my post, I'm not saying it was only a simple sexual abuse. I'm indirectly saying that, the institute fails for not keeping being able to keep their main objective at hand.
And if it is as complex as you mentioned, is it necessary for the sexual abuse? For once, if I'm the institute, I would just do whatever experiment on her body, once done, dispose (Doing unnecessary things increase risk failing the experiment). No need for the sexual abuse part nor the violence.
The event in the novel can be either one of the way:
-> It is a well planned and complex human manufacturing experimentation (contradictory because there was torture and sexual abuse)
-> It is a poorly executed plan (contradictory for being national level, basically a joke)

Both the above events are full of contradiction, which is why, I'm questioning whether the institute know what they are doing? Or are they just a hoodlum.

More of the reason it sounds strange and stranger. And yes, I'm aware that Ovary is not the only reproduction organ, as I stated before, the lost of other reproductory organ (except ovary) can be easily substituted even with our current world technology.

Anyway, let's end this topic here. I think it's a miss on on the editor (of the novel official release) for not doing enough research to support the author.

Offline BloodPrincess

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4566 on: May 29, 2013, 08:38:02 PM »
I don't really agree with your opinion. Tats was born with that supernatural power to be able to change the information body of eidos which is why he can destroy or restore with his ability but that was it. Since he couldn't use magic they still attempted to make him into a real magician which never turn out as expected so now everyone just says he's a fake magician. so he is actually more like a BS magician.
You mean pressure because he wasn't able to use regular magic, there is no indication of the insult 'fake' being used except when he was being referred to as being an artificial magician, the actual result of the experiment.

yea i dont think hes a fake magician either thats why i used talking marks, the yotsuba/himself/whoever (my memory is not the best) keeps addressing him as 'fake' or 'artificial' or something along those lines.
i agree hes more of a BS magician except he specializes in two; decompose n reconstruct unlike other BS magicians.



Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-09+
« Reply #4565 on: May 29, 2013, 07:29:35 PM »
i'm talking about her mental state
So am I. I am assuming wherever she was taken for treatment she was assessed and treated by mental trauma professionals, just like she was treated for her physical problems. It was just meant to be a quick comment, not really relevant to the point you were making, on your statement that normally she would have been taken to a Psychiatrist for treatment. I'm not disputing alternative treatments to the Miya magic mind scrub, since it would mean an entirely different family for an entirely different story.

Miya probably already felt pressure from yotsuba cause Tats was supposed to be the head yet he is a 'fake' magician cause he can only decompose and reconstruct but both Miya and Maya was involved in the experiment so Maya probably pressured her even more, i can seriously imagine her being completely unreasonable saying stuff like you had no problem experimenting on me yet you dont wanna do it to your child
You mean pressure because he wasn't able to use regular magic, there is no indication of the insult 'fake' being used except when he was being referred to as being an artificial magician, the actual result of the experiment.