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Author Topic: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-13+  (Read 716650 times)

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Offline fast_eel

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3679 on: February 25, 2013, 04:56:29 AM »
Flash Cast only allows him to cast magic with five steps or less instantly. It does not affect his processing scale or any other aspect. This has already been discussed. Why do you think he's called a fake magician and a failure by his clan even now?

yeah i know all this, did you read tha past post i'm only wanting to know if new info got out. because  someone said:

He didn't just obtain flash cast from the experiment, he also got an artificial magic calculation area which allows him to use magic like a normal magician, just slower.

so... don't get mad bro, i'm just asking, i didn't know that magics he used with five or less steps are less powerfull than normal magicians, is that a problem? you know there are 3650> post here, so it would be tiring to read all those post without mention that some are pretty big post with a lot of words, so i think this thread is to ask whenever you have a doubt.

Offline blackwhite67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3678 on: February 25, 2013, 03:18:37 AM »
Flash Cast only allows him to cast magic with five steps or less instantly. It does not affect his processing scale or any other aspect. This has already been discussed. Why do you think he's called a fake magician and a failure by his clan even now?

Offline fast_eel

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3677 on: February 25, 2013, 02:55:00 AM »
Tatsuya can instantly cast any magic with five steps or less, but that's all. He cannot do it on the same scale as another magician. Consider his performance in Monolith Code where when he used oscillation magic on an opponent he could not completely render him unconscious.
i think he didn't use flash cast in that fight. so we don't know if he can do it in the same scale.

Offline blackwhite67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3676 on: February 25, 2013, 02:10:06 AM »
Tatsuya can instantly cast any magic with five steps or less, but that's all. He cannot do it on the same scale as another magician. Consider his performance in Monolith Code where when he used oscillation magic on an opponent he could not completely render him unconscious.

Offline distra

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3675 on: February 25, 2013, 02:00:07 AM »
what i'm trying say is: for example if he has time let's say ten minutes to use others magics, then he can destroy others cities with a diferent magic that his own, only that he will need more time. but maybe what you're trying to say is that those magics need a fast speed of calculation between steps? so i will like an explanation on this matter. please?
This entirely depends on how the author will handle this if the question is ever raised.

All we know is that he can't use those techniques effectively, but I don't think it's impossible for him to use them at all. Unless there's capacity limit.

Let's put it this way (since the author draws this comparison himself): Tatsuya's artificial magic calculation area is like some old (more like ancient) computer. It can make simple calculations very fast, but if you were to use it to make large scale calculations it'd take days to finish.
But it's also possible he's limited in the capacity. In terms of that magic jargon it would mean not only the number of steps taken in the activation sequence but also their length (data size). What I'm basically referring to is how the BS magics work. They're so specialized that their special magic takes up most of their 'natural magic calculation area' in the brain, so they're mostly unable to use other spells effectively. (Tatsuya himself is basically similiar to a BS magician. His brain could only use the spells he was practically born with and he was unable to process normal magic.) This kind of implies that there's a different factor other than the number of steps in the activation sequence. A factor which decides the amount of information the brain can process at once.
So it's likely he can't copy every magic, but to a degree some magics above 5 steps at a much (much much much) lower speed.


edit:

Actually, there is a concept of a capacity limit already in the novel. It's how many targets they can aim at all at once. If a spell for example had a target requirement above his limit, he wouldn't be able to copy it.

Offline fast_eel

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3674 on: February 25, 2013, 01:20:17 AM »
This is almost accurate I'd say. However he can't properly use those magics even if he could cast something like Inferno. The casting speed would be so slow that it's basically useless in combat. It's rather simple: the more complicated the spell the more time he'd need to cast it.
And I doubt there's any strategic/war class magicians that use 5 steps magics... In fact it seems the larger the scale of the spell the harder it is. And since strategic class magicians by definition can cast spells on a scale that can take out whole cities.. their spells are either incredibly complicated or even BS (that extreme specialzation in one spell which in turn makes it impossible to use other magics at a similiar level).

But on the other hand.. thanks to his eyes he could - if not replicate the spell himself - at least make someone else copy it. Like how he most likely copied Inferno and Niflheim for Miyuki (the activation sequences for these were not public knowledge - one of the reasons everyone was going crazy about Miyuki casting them). Or how he recreated Mikihiko's ancient magic.

what i'm trying say is: for example if he has time let's say ten minutes to use others magics, then he can destroy others cities with a diferent magic that his own, only that he will need more time. but maybe what you're trying to say is that those magics need a fast speed of calculation between steps? so i will like an explanation on this matter. please?

Offline distra

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3673 on: February 25, 2013, 01:08:02 AM »
from what you say
he can use others magics that have more than 5 steps and as he can understand how all others magic functions after see them. can he copy any magic he sees?  or is just your asumption. because if that's true then he can use others strategic class magics after see how they function. isn't it?
This is almost accurate I'd say. However he can't properly use those magics even if he could cast something like Inferno. The casting speed would be so slow that it's basically useless in combat. It's rather simple: the more complicated the spell the more time he'd need to cast it.
And I doubt there's any strategic/war class magicians that use 5 steps magics... In fact it seems the larger the scale of the spell the harder it is. And since strategic class magicians by definition can cast spells on a scale that can take out whole cities.. their spells are either incredibly complicated or even BS (that extreme specialzation in one spell which in turn makes it impossible to use other magics at a similiar level).

But on the other hand.. thanks to his eyes he could - if not replicate the spell himself - at least make someone else copy it. Like how he most likely copied Inferno and Niflheim for Miyuki (the activation sequences for these were not public knowledge - one of the reasons everyone was going crazy about Miyuki casting them). Or how he recreated Mikihiko's ancient magic.

Offline fast_eel

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3672 on: February 25, 2013, 12:33:44 AM »
He didn't just obtain flash cast from the experiment, he also got an artificial magic calculation area which allows him to use magic like a normal magician, just slower.

from what you say
he can use others magics that have more than 5 steps and as he can understand how all others magic functions after see them. can he copy any magic he sees?  or is just your asumption. because if that's true then he can use others strategic class magics after see how they function. isn't it?

Offline yttam50

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3671 on: February 24, 2013, 11:44:49 PM »
I was wondering, why did Tatsuya ask for his Mobile Suit to be equipped with a CAD for Flight Magic, I mean isn't he only able to use Dinsintegration/Regeneration magic and besides that he can only use up to 5 step magics with Flash Cast, so Flight magic must falls within the categories of spell that he can just flash cast, no ?

He didn't just obtain flash cast from the experiment, he also got an artificial magic calculation area which allows him to use magic like a normal magician, just slower.

Offline Jirachier

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3670 on: February 24, 2013, 11:20:12 PM »
I was wondering, why did Tatsuya ask for his Mobile Suit to be equipped with a CAD for Flight Magic, I mean isn't he only able to use Dinsintegration/Regeneration magic and besides that he can only use up to 5 step magics with Flash Cast, so Flight magic must falls within the categories of spell that he can just flash cast, no ?

Offline distra

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3669 on: February 24, 2013, 09:31:55 PM »
From what Sanada said to Juumonji in V7, it seemed clear that his classified unit would be definitely known to someone who is the heir of one of the 10 Master Clans.
I agree with you on this, but there's a definite difference between knowing OF the unit and knowing the identity of its members. Which was my point.^^

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3668 on: February 24, 2013, 09:24:46 PM »
From what Sanada said to Juumonji in V7, it seemed clear that his classified unit would be definitely known to someone who is the heir of one of the 10 Master Clans.

The only thing Koichi says he is aiming at is the relationship between the Yotsuba and the 101st, although Kudo mentions he thinks this is also aimed at 1st High's Principal.  The idea is simply if the relationship can be broken, the Yotsuba's military power they can call upon will weaken. 

As Tatsuya was warned of in the 9 schools arc, if classified abilities such as Mist dispersion or Gram dispersion were exposed their relationship would turn sour. The officers were monitoring his matches in case he used his decomposition magic, so they could immediately take him into protective custody if he exposed the 101st classified magic. This would be breaking the deal with Yotsuba mentioned in volume 4 as he would't be able to perform his duties as a guardian.


Offline distra

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3667 on: February 24, 2013, 07:38:12 PM »
Sorry, please read the forum rules to see why you can't view spoilers and why you can't post in this forum section. Thank you!

Sorry, please read the forum rules to see why you can't view spoilers and why you can't post in this forum section. Thank you!

Offline pham_hoanglinh

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3666 on: February 24, 2013, 03:24:52 PM »
not necessarily, look at the Yotsuba, Tatsuya is the eldest son and he's nowhere near being the next heir ans Miyuki as well as her cousins were all candidates, so it wasn't decided from the start through who is the eldest, maybe the Saegusa too decide their heir on ability rather than who is the eldest(tbh that would make much more sense for the 10 Master Clan who pride themselves in being the strongest magicians, it would be weird if their next leader is not their best magician).

well, you are chosing the most unique family to be the sample. Yotsube keeps everything in secret, in contrast to the rest, we already know Juumonji Katsuto and Ichijou Masaki are the heirs and they fit the tradition (eldest son).
And to more specific, I dont really care who going to be the heir, because no matter how strong the head is, he/she can not act individualy, they have to follow and act for the benefit of the clan, if not, they are going down soon.

Offline malason13

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3665 on: February 24, 2013, 02:53:24 PM »
One thing I want to be sure. When Koichi said that a student at 1st High is a member of 101th Battalion, did he atually said Tatsuya name or not? (Maybe he will make a mistake and think it is Miyuki.)
Did the author when the next volume will come? after reading the spoler I really want to know what will happen.
No, he I think he didn't actually said Tatsuya's name. However for us readers, we already know who he was talking about.

Offline rocksnlemons

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3664 on: February 24, 2013, 01:16:12 PM »

Did the author when the next volume will come? after reading the spoler I really want to know what will happen.

I think  LN volume 9 will be release in March 10

Offline leaored

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3663 on: February 24, 2013, 12:57:57 PM »
First of all, we all know he couldn't pull that off nor would he dare try if he knew that he was Strategic-class. Second, there's no way the government wouldn't find out that he's the culprit and let him get away with it. Third, remember that his goal is simply to weaken the Yotsuba not destroy them and Tatsuya is only one magician. There's no need to go to such efforts to kill just one magician, 101 or not.

One thing I want to be sure. When Koichi said that a student at 1st High is a member of 101th Battalion, did he atually said Tatsuya name or not? (Maybe he will make a mistake and think it is Miyuki.)
Did the author when the next volume will come? after reading the spoler I really want to know what will happen.

Offline blackwhite67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3662 on: February 24, 2013, 11:02:05 AM »
Actually I think he does know, I bet he will try to kill tatsuya while the public don´t know he is a strategic-class, in order to weaken the Yotsuba, and afterwards say it was an accident.

First of all, we all know he couldn't pull that off nor would he dare try if he knew that he was Strategic-class. Second, there's no way the government wouldn't find out that he's the culprit and let him get away with it. Third, remember that his goal is simply to weaken the Yotsuba not destroy them and Tatsuya is only one magician. There's no need to go to such efforts to kill just one magician, 101 or not.

Offline leaored

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3661 on: February 24, 2013, 10:46:47 AM »
Recall that it's a war zone where civilians have fled and there are only combatants. The enemy was disintegrated along with their belongings and even if there pictures remember that Fujibayashi is an intelligence specialist with magical abilities allowing her to manipulate digital information.

Everyone please remember that Koichi isn't planning on killing Tatsuya and it never said so. He is not aware that Tatsuya is their unregistered Strategic-class magician  and Silver Taurus.

Actually I think he does know, I bet he will try to kill tatsuya while the public don´t know he is a strategic-class, in order to weaken the Yotsuba, and afterwards say it was an accident.

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3660 on: February 24, 2013, 04:57:31 AM »
101th Battalion its known "secret or ghost" popular gossip Unit among JSDF, Police and related People,
I believe its only a myth in the JSDF. As I've already mentioned Police Inspector Chiba never heard of the unit. I also mentioned no one else in Tatsuya's friends looked into it further. The name isn't even important since they saw everything anyway, so there is no need for them to investigate any further.  Makeishura is a taboo Asian Alliance term. They actually want the main factor for their previous retreat to remain a secret and hidden. There is no reason for it to pop up among the Japanese rumour mill, especially when you have magicians who can trace and erase any speck of electronic evidence with magic like Kyouko and the Yotsuba.

Offline blackwhite67

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3659 on: February 24, 2013, 04:56:00 AM »
That's bothering me too. How the can they have not any picture of Makeishura? When the event that happen in Yokohama was known throughout the world as "Scorched Halloween". Does that mean their Cellphones didn't advance at all? Especially the internet, it must have created quite a buzz after the Yokohama incident.

Recall that it's a war zone where civilians have fled and there are only combatants. The enemy was disintegrated along with their belongings and even if there pictures remember that Fujibayashi is an intelligence specialist with magical abilities allowing her to manipulate digital information.

Everyone please remember that Koichi isn't planning on killing Tatsuya and it never said so. He is not aware that Tatsuya is their unregistered Strategic-class magician  and Silver Taurus.

Offline Chimurry

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3658 on: February 24, 2013, 04:48:50 AM »
I think Scorched Halloween refers to the aftermath of Material Burst Tatsuya used on the Chinese fleet, which was dozens of kilometres away, not the invasion per se. Even if the invaders took a picture of Makeishura/Tatsuya, he'd still be in a mobile suit, so all they have on him is a picture of the suit, not the person underneath.
How many civilians can you think of who calmy take pictures in a war zone? Besides, 101 would tell/force any witnesses to keep anything they saw confidential and same about the internet, I guess 101 manipulated any information (as in concrete proof that 101 unit exists) that could expose them and/or Tatsuya, possibly with the help of the government.

Some People take their time and even hide from Army or Government with open public release purposes, take as example, events like: Arab Spring, Tsunamis, Earthquakes, robbery and assaults.

Offline Awrya

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3657 on: February 24, 2013, 04:33:26 AM »
That's bothering me too. How the can they have not any picture of Makeishura? When the event that happen in Yokohama was known throughout the world as "Scorched Halloween". Does that mean their Cellphones didn't advance at all? Especially the internet, it must have created quite a buzz after the Yokohama incident.
I think Scorched Halloween refers to the aftermath of Material Burst Tatsuya used on the Chinese fleet, which was dozens of kilometres away, not the invasion per se. Even if the invaders took a picture of Makeishura/Tatsuya, he'd still be in a mobile suit, so all they have on him is a picture of the suit, not the person underneath.
How many civilians can you think of who calmy take pictures in a war zone? Besides, 101 would tell/force any witnesses to keep anything they saw confidential and same about the internet, I guess 101 manipulated any information (as in concrete proof that 101 unit exists) that could expose them and/or Tatsuya, possibly with the help of the government.

Offline malason13

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3656 on: February 24, 2013, 03:18:40 AM »
101th Battalion its known "secret or ghost" popular gossip Unit among JSDF, Police and related People, like I said: It just take a quick look of their equipment's, resources, Magicians and weapons to known what kind of unknown Unit they are, like: how many JSDF Units have flying Combat Mobile Suits for their use??, its really hard some info don't leaks ans specially when major heroic events happen, they could cover Tats or the others names , but the Unit name will pop up as urban legend gossip, take as example the recent killing of Osama Bin Laden or others Al Qaeda members by Rainbow 6, Black September in hands of Kidom Units of Mossad, this examples its in rl and when the area its not so open as the events description on MKnR: Yokohama and Okinawa, with thousands of civilians and one of the highest technology holders per capita in the World.
About the reaction on Tats release there's a short reference in Mayumi SS (Mio visit Saegusa House) and she reviewing again Tats magic resources and mention: The Maelstrom of Psions.
Something really bothering me its about the Public Opinion turmoil, I mean its almost 22th century and streets gossips could be high enough to deliver lot of debates and discussions about the events and overwhelming victory over Asian Alliance Fleet, so: no cell phones pictures?, military gossips leaks to the public opinion??, What Unit was in charge of??, Survival soldiers talking about healing magic, Asian Alliance soldiers/people talking on internet about Demon God actions in Okinawa, Yokohama and on navy base, adding the weird fact that they capture Asian Alliance equipment and didn't overheard their communications, probably the author will say nobody could understand the talk, but they would hear key words, like: Makeishura. 
That's bothering me too. How the can they have not any picture of Makeishura? When the event that happen in Yokohama was known throughout the world as "Scorched Halloween". Does that mean their Cellphones didn't advance at all? Especially the internet, it must have created quite a buzz after the Yokohama incident.

Offline Chimurry

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3655 on: February 24, 2013, 02:48:58 AM »
Yes, Mayumi isn't some aho girl. On the other hand, you haven't said anything about how she'd know about the 101 in the first place. If Mayumi knows that Kyoko is JSDF Special Ops, all Mayumi can assume is that Tatsuya is also JSDF Special Ops. Just because the summaries of untranslated arcs mention a talk between Mayumi and Kyoko about levels of secrets doesn't mean that Kyoko revealed anything to Mayumi about the 101, not even its existence. Everything is dependent on Mayumi having been informed by Koichi or the Saegusa heir about the 101st. Since she's not the heir, she probably hasn't been cleared for that level.

As for Tatsuya's psion release, I'm still waiting for someone to react to it in the story. Since no one did in ch.11, it's possible that Miyuki followed Tatsuya from the resting area assigned to First High and released his shackles at the entrance—unobserved by the others. After all, Miyuki is the only one mentioned watching Tatsuya as he stepped onto the Yokohama streets.

101th Battalion its known "secret or ghost" popular gossip Unit among JSDF, Police and related People, like I said: It just take a quick look of their equipment's, resources, Magicians and weapons to known what kind of unknown Unit they are, like: how many JSDF Units have flying Combat Mobile Suits for their use??, its really hard some info don't leaks ans specially when major heroic events happen, they could cover Tats or the others names , but the Unit name will pop up as urban legend gossip, take as example the recent killing of Osama Bin Laden or others Al Qaeda members by Rainbow 6, Black September in hands of Kidom Units of Mossad, this examples its in rl and when the area its not so open as the events description on MKnR: Yokohama and Okinawa, with thousands of civilians and one of the highest technology holders per capita in the World.
About the reaction on Tats release there's a short reference in Mayumi SS (Mio visit Saegusa House) and she reviewing again Tats magic resources and mention: The Maelstrom of Psions.
Something really bothering me its about the Public Opinion turmoil, I mean its almost 22th century and streets gossips could be high enough to deliver lot of debates and discussions about the events and overwhelming victory over Asian Alliance Fleet, so: no cell phones pictures?, military gossips leaks to the public opinion??, What Unit was in charge of??, Survival soldiers talking about healing magic, Asian Alliance soldiers/people talking on internet about Demon God actions in Okinawa, Yokohama and on navy base, adding the weird fact that they capture Asian Alliance equipment and didn't overheard their communications, probably the author will say nobody could understand the talk, but they would hear key words, like: Makeishura. 

Offline xandrew

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3654 on: February 24, 2013, 02:06:08 AM »
How did you guys know koichis plan? Is there a new summary? Give it to me pleaseeeeee.......:(

Offline Jirachier

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3653 on: February 24, 2013, 12:56:14 AM »
There is no chosing whatsoever between Mayumi and her brothers, sisters. The simple reason is the eldest son is going to be the heir (or second son if there is something wrong with the first).
not necessarily, look at the Yotsuba, Tatsuya is the eldest son and he's nowhere near being the next heir ans Miyuki as well as her cousins were all candidates, so it wasn't decided from the start through who is the eldest, maybe the Saegusa too decide their heir on ability rather than who is the eldest(tbh that would make much more sense for the 10 Master Clan who pride themselves in being the strongest magicians, it would be weird if their next leader is not their best magician).

Offline yttam50

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3652 on: February 23, 2013, 11:52:50 PM »
And then act like it was the natural thing to do while Miyuki cleans up the blood (if there is anything even left to clean up).

Offline Zatoichi55

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3651 on: February 23, 2013, 11:24:00 PM »
And be a emotionless robot while doing so.

Offline malason13

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3650 on: February 23, 2013, 11:21:05 PM »
If Tatsuya heard of this plan. He will do what he does best, and that is to beat the crap out of everyone, and instill fear in them.

Offline pham_hoanglinh

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3649 on: February 23, 2013, 11:02:07 PM »
I just reread the summary of the Shiba Past and there was a moment where Miyuki used Cocytus on a few opponents, does this means that the seal restricting her and her brother's abilities wasn't placed on them yet ?

As for the plan to weaken the Yotsuba by targeting Tatsuya, I think it will most likely fail and the only thing that it may result in is a few more people knowing of Tatsuya's prowess and he might be forced into showing his classified magic to them. What I'm hoping for though is that the Yotsuba trace back these events to the Saegusa and Kudou clan and a war starts between them or the entire 10 Master Clan, that would be really interesting because I have been waited for several volumes to actually see who are the members of each clan and the capabilities they possess(I'm very curious about the identity of the heir to the Saesuga, for this guy to be chosen over Mayumi who is considered a super genius he must be incredible).

There is no chosing whatsoever between Mayumi and her brothers, sisters. The simple reason is the eldest son is going to be the heir (or second son if there is something wrong with the first).

Offline Jirachier

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3648 on: February 23, 2013, 10:45:07 PM »
I just reread the summary of the Shiba Past and there was a moment where Miyuki used Cocytus on a few opponents, does this means that the seal restricting her and her brother's abilities wasn't placed on them yet ?

As for the plan to weaken the Yotsuba by targeting Tatsuya, I think it will most likely fail and the only thing that it may result in is a few more people knowing of Tatsuya's prowess and he might be forced into showing his classified magic to them. What I'm hoping for though is that the Yotsuba trace back these events to the Saegusa and Kudou clan and a war starts between them or the entire 10 Master Clan, that would be really interesting because I have been waited for several volumes to actually see who are the members of each clan and the capabilities they possess(I'm very curious about the identity of the heir to the Saesuga, for this guy to be chosen over Mayumi who is considered a super genius he must be incredible).

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3647 on: February 23, 2013, 08:46:28 PM »
Koichi's real concern is Yotsuba getting too much powerful. And to eliminate Tatsuya, is a logical step. His planned disclosure of Tats secret to the press is just a front so that he won't be pointed at as the mastermind, when Tats get killed, he can pin the blame onto some random terrorists, who learns about the secret
The spoiler seems to indicate its a political attack targeted at the Yotsuba's human cruelty. They are already aware of the Yotsuba's power, so I don't think they would consider a plan that involves direct harm to the clans members.
No combat related attacks have been suggested or mentioned so far.

So unless Koichi already planning a double cross, his (and Kudou) acceptance of the USNA plan is weird.
Well its not like it will directly affect their own family's power. I'm sue they believe their country is strong enough as is and doesn't require Tatsuya's presence to maintain their country's international standing.

I must say again, its still shocking reading the latest B-T chapter and realising how truly attached Miyuki was to Tatsuya  while not even realising it herself.

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3646 on: February 23, 2013, 08:29:27 PM »
Koichi's real concern is Yotsuba getting too much powerful. And to eliminate Tatsuya, is a logical step. His planned disclosure of Tats secret to the press is just a front so that he won't be pointed at as the mastermind, when Tats get killed, he can pin the blame onto some random terrorists, who learns about the secret

and because of that process, it's highly possible to reveal Tats as War Class Magician and most likely will be backfires koichi himself.....  :wahaha:

Offline geniuspaus

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3645 on: February 23, 2013, 08:09:44 PM »
Koichi's real concern is Yotsuba getting too much powerful. And to eliminate Tatsuya, is a logical step. His planned disclosure of Tats secret to the press is just a front so that he won't be pointed at as the mastermind, when Tats get killed, he can pin the blame onto some random terrorists, who learns about the secret

Offline FRS

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3644 on: February 23, 2013, 07:28:27 PM »
I think we are lacking some infos because at the moment Kudou and Koichi seems to be "carrying the idiot ball".


For exemple if the media leak goes on showing Tatsuya as a child soldier used in black ops and a result of human biotech yea there will be a backlash against the Yotsuba but it could allow to governement to keep Tatsuya (he's a victim and we will keep him safe trust us) on the other hand he must know that the USNA will not leave Japan with a second strategic mage.

So unless Koichi already planning a double cross, his (and Kudou) acceptance of the USNA plan is weird.

Offline Monstratboy

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3643 on: February 23, 2013, 05:29:14 PM »
Thanks to ‎Sashiko for the V8 chapters.

What Saegusa is really aiming for is a break in the relationship he sees between the powerful top secret 101st and the Yotsuba. Public exposure will cause all sorts of problems neither group wants to deal with.

What Kudo wants is no more ridiculously powerful magicians joining the Yotsuba's ranks. Both Miyuki and Tatsuya are more powerful than most magicans and are still growing. Once they officially join their clan(Tatsuya may have to leave the military), who is already known to have the strongest mages, this small secretive family would then officially be more powerful than most nations.

What I find really amusing about Koich's and Kudo's wishes to weaken the Yotsuba, is the fact that had they done nothing, the Shiba's may have separated from their clan on their own and alleviated their worries.  However, it may be their actions(as well as their inaction) that will make the author's V8 prediction of there being 'no future conflict between Tatsuya and the Yotsuba' come true.

Theory: This indirect attack on their family's power could bring Tatsuya to depend more on his clan's intelligence gathering & political influence and become more in their debt.  Ruducing the possibity of him being able to break away from them.

This arc's story could still have even more hands moving in the background if this USNA plot to weaken Japan's mages is one of the things Shizuku passed on to Tatsuya after her return.  It means this may very likely be another plan instigated by the same powerful individual who we learned actually started the Blanche and Vamp incidents. God I love this LN.
  
I said we need to see Vamps arc release and translated to see the real after math of the Halloween events, like say: Mayumi and Mari will not take all Tats affirmations for granted, knowing hes Military and most likely theres Information/actions restriction Public release, like when the talk about the magatama, far I saw on summary shes look for tag with Him, instead just listen Him.
From reading the later web arcs they take it no further than what they've been told. Mayumi only once privately contemplates on what she has seen already. There is no actually part in the web arc where Mayumi shows knowledge of the the name 101st. No one among his school friends investigate Tatsuya any further except for Erika.  And she only does so because a close loved one got hurt and the incident involving some heavy magic use was somehow all mysteriously covered up. We'll have to wait and see if the published novel goes further.

I agree its obvious Mayumi and the gang in v7c10 know Tats is part of a top secret military JSDF unit, but from what Sanada said in that chapter, only people like Katsuto who is the Juumonji's designated heir and the current representative of his family when the 10 Master Clans have their Conferences would have the required access privileges to the actual name of the top secret unit and what weaponry they use and what they are capable of.  Inspector Chiba  was questioning what imaginary force Tats was claiming he is from when they met as Mayumi was evacuated in web 3.  The younger Chiba knows about the major as he is also in the military and Kazuma is a famous military figure, but only heard of the special squad it seems as an urban legend.

Offline orig27

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3642 on: February 23, 2013, 04:01:20 PM »
hmmmm...I wont blame Koichi for being madly in love with power but, he should know the limits of fighting a god?

even if he publicize Tatsuya, what would the public say anyway?
He's Silver of FLT who improve the magic capability of japan?
He's a Yotsuba family guardian(one of the most powerful clan in japan?)
He's a monster who has elemental sight?
He can restore any wounds in a mater of 0.2 sec?
He can disperse human flesh to their atoms?
He can nuke any place in japan and the entire world?

so basically what does Koichi want?
Publicize that Yotsuba is the strongest clan in the world? (lead by Tatsuya) or
make the world cower in fear in front of Tatsuya, not like hes gonna care about it?
Let the public kidnapped Miyuki like what those people did to Maya a few years prior to the story?
like those guys can do it when both Miyuki and Tatsuya are bound by a seal!
well theres still more but lets end it with this.......

summary is Koichi is a mother frikin Idiot,,, he could have live a peaceful life!  :maikka:

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3641 on: February 23, 2013, 03:50:52 PM »
its say Kyoko involve with JSDF Special Ops, late she saw Tats disappears to nowhere a 30 or so tons truck, his psions release after Miyuki release his shackles, his flying mobile suit with almost miracle healing magic and his rank are "Special Lieutenant" and the Commander saying key words as "National Defense", "Top Secret", "Don't reveal Tats real identity" and "Non identify Military Unit", Mayumi its not aho girl character to not get there's connection between Tats and 101th suppose non existent JSDF unit, about web arc 6, well if I remember in the summaries there's said Mayumi talk with Kyoko, about levels of secrets, yes, they're levels but just as example: they know about Blanche and even more surprising Tats knew.

Yes, Mayumi isn't some aho girl. On the other hand, you haven't said anything about how she'd know about the 101 in the first place. If Mayumi knows that Kyoko is JSDF Special Ops, all Mayumi can assume is that Tatsuya is also JSDF Special Ops. Just because the summaries of untranslated arcs mention a talk between Mayumi and Kyoko about levels of secrets doesn't mean that Kyoko revealed anything to Mayumi about the 101, not even its existence. Everything is dependent on Mayumi having been informed by Koichi or the Saegusa heir about the 101st. Since she's not the heir, she probably hasn't been cleared for that level.

As for Tatsuya's psion release, I'm still waiting for someone to react to it in the story. Since no one did in ch.11, it's possible that Miyuki followed Tatsuya from the resting area assigned to First High and released his shackles at the entrance—unobserved by the others. After all, Miyuki is the only one mentioned watching Tatsuya as he stepped onto the Yokohama streets.

Offline chraiti6119

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3640 on: February 23, 2013, 03:18:12 PM »
Tatsuya will just do what he does at the end of every arc:Terminate everybody.

Offline yttam50

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3639 on: February 23, 2013, 03:13:59 PM »
Has anyone else considered what would happen if Miyuki found out about Koichi's plan?
Which is basically him trying to weaken the Yotsuba because he is scared of how powerful they are by attacking and exposing Tatsuya (where there is a chance of Miyuki getting hurt :ohnose: ) who can single-handedly wipe out the Yotsuba. :gtfo:

Offline Chimurry

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3638 on: February 23, 2013, 02:00:18 PM »
Not sure what significance you found with the talk between Haruka and kyoko as it does not imply anything to her knowing about kyokos position in the 101st. The public knowledge about kyoko is that she was named the electron sorceress after her domination in the nine schools competition. Her membership in the 101st is a completely different matter. Furthermore, she may have access to the 10 master clan Intel, but through past evidence, I am quite certain she does not have full access to it.

The head of the Saegusa, Koichi, would be the person to have that kind of information. I couldn't find any evidence from the mayumi SS, so it'd be nice if you can quote the area of evidence. As for the vamps arc, It hasn't been translated yet, so I wouldn't use it to base off anything.

Honestly I not on the mood to try convince something its not critical nor start 10 or more pages discussion if is or not, my Windows 7 OS give a lot of problems than even open a winword doc seems have problems, so quoting from texts its a pain, its say Kyoko involve with JSDF Special Ops, late she saw Tats disappears to nowhere a 30 or so tons truck, his psions release after Miyuki release his shackles, his flying mobile suit with almost miracle healing magic and his rank are "Special Lieutenant" and the Commander saying key words as "National Defense", "Top Secret", "Don't reveal Tats real identity" and "Non identify Military Unit", Mayumi its not aho girl character to not get there's connection between Tats and 101th suppose non existent JSDF unit, about web arc 6, well if I remember in the summaries there's said Mayumi talk with Kyoko, about levels of secrets, yes, they're levels but just as example: they know about Blanche and even more surprising Tats knew.
I said we need to see Vamps arc release and translated to see the real after math of the Halloween events, like say: Mayumi and Mari will not take all Tats affirmations for granted, knowing hes Military and most likely theres Information/actions restriction Public release, like when the talk about the magatama, far I saw on summary shes look for tag with Him, instead just listen Him.
I don't know if all you People ready found the fact its Mayumi whom always keep review Tats, alone or with Mari, I think the only exception and most likely to explain to the reader was the talk between the doctor and Kyoko, but for new magic, improves and others looks like, its Mayumi.

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3637 on: February 23, 2013, 01:49:21 PM »
Anyhow, if Koichi does know that Tatsuya is a Strategic-class Magician and he's still doing all this, then he's willing to weaken Japan just to undermine the Yotsuba. Since he's collaborating with USNA against Japanese interests, his actions are potentially grounds for treason...and isn't treason one of the possible reasons for taking away a family's Number and making it an Extra?

if that's going to happen then the winner is Maki and Shippou Takuma  :wahaha:

poor you Koichi-san  :XD:

Offline bloodyclaws

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3636 on: February 23, 2013, 01:12:14 PM »
I mentioned Haruka for the sole reason of the mental talk about Electron Sorceress fame, implying Mayumi knows this "Public knowledge" about Kyoko, plus her role as Saegusa Main Family Member and her access to 10 Master Clans Intel, if I remember Mayumi SS she mention this and the Vamps Arc Mayumi cooperation with Tats include Kyoko.

Not sure what significance you found with the talk between Haruka and kyoko as it does not imply anything to her knowing about kyokos position in the 101st. The public knowledge about kyoko is that she was named the electron sorceress after her domination in the nine schools competition. Her membership in the 101st is a completely different matter. Furthermore, she may have access to the 10 master clan Intel, but through past evidence, I am quite certain she does not have full access to it.

The head of the Saegusa, Koichi, would be the person to have that kind of information. I couldn't find any evidence from the mayumi SS, so it'd be nice if you can quote the area of evidence. As for the vamps arc, It hasn't been translated yet, so I wouldn't use it to base off anything.

Offline Chimurry

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3635 on: February 23, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »
Mayumi knows Kyoko well, but does she know that Kyoko is a member of the 101? Kyoko's behavior with the eldest Chiba son and with Haruka implies that she's intent on maintaining the secrecy of the 101, so it seems unlikely that she'd tell Mayumi. Erika knows that Tatsuya is a Yotsuba, but when did she find out that his unit is the 101?

And Koichi doesn't know that Tatsuya is Mr. Silver, either. If that also comes out, it would help cement Yotsuba's position as reigning above the other 10 Master clans.

Anyhow, if Koichi does know that Tatsuya is a Strategic-class Magician and he's still doing all this, then he's willing to weaken Japan just to undermine the Yotsuba. Since he's collaborating with USNA against Japanese interests, his actions are potentially grounds for treason...and isn't treason one of the possible reasons for taking away a family's Number and making it an Extra?

I mentioned Haruka for the sole reason of the mental talk about Electron Sorceress fame, implying Mayumi knows this "Public knowledge" about Kyoko, plus her role as Saegusa Main Family Member and her access to 10 Master Clans Intel, if I remember Mayumi SS she mention this and the Vamps Arc Mayumi cooperation with Tats include Kyoko.

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3634 on: February 23, 2013, 12:39:44 PM »
b. Not only Katsuto knows Tats membership to 101th Battalion, Ericka and others too, Mayumi is old good friend of Kyoko, her treatment reveals good friendship, like calling her: Kyoko nee (short for Onee sama) and using her name instead family name like Chiba elder son did.

Mayumi knows Kyoko well, but does she know that Kyoko is a member of the 101? Kyoko's behavior with the eldest Chiba son and with Haruka implies that she's intent on maintaining the secrecy of the 101, so it seems unlikely that she'd tell Mayumi. Erika knows that Tatsuya is a Yotsuba, but when did she find out that his unit is the 101?

c. Its not clear how much info Koichi have about Tats, but if you ask, the best moment to take out Tats (eliminate or give bad rep) its when nobody know he is an Strategic Class and responsible for Okinawa and Scorched Halloween Asian Alliance defeats, in the moment come to Public, nobody will be able touch Tats and Yotsuba without strong repression or even elimination and the outcast of the Clan, in other words: right now "nobody" (Public opinion) knows his existence, once come public its like touching invaluable asset, some lines give the impression Koichi sudden moves its cuz once Tats come public, Yotsuba will be public held 2nd Strategic Class magician, enforcing their current status and magic power plus the fact cannot be touched or link to any internal treat or the perpetrators will receive public condemn.

And Koichi doesn't know that Tatsuya is Mr. Silver, either. If that also comes out, it would help cement Yotsuba's position above the other 10 Master clans.

Anyhow, if Koichi does know that Tatsuya is a Strategic-class Magician and he's still doing all this, then he's willing to weaken Japan just to undermine the Yotsuba. Since he's collaborating with the USNA against Japanese interests, his actions are potentially grounds for treason...and isn't treason one of the possible reasons for taking away a family's Number and making that family an Extra?

Offline Chimurry

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3633 on: February 23, 2013, 11:28:48 AM »
On further thought, only Katsuto knows about his membership in 101. The others you mentioned only know that he's secret military. Recall that Kazama didn't divulge his unit to them.

That Commander was recent, remember on Vol 8, Maya ready knows before arrival about Lina and Sirius Team deployment in Japan.

Reading some posts I think it would be good idea for some members re read MKnR and recent D7 ch3 summary, looks like forgot the story flows (not you, I mention cuz others post), like to be clear:

a. Retsu ready knows Tats identity as unregister Strategic Class due his role 3 years prior, during Okinawa failed invasion.
b. Not only Katsuto knows Tats membership to 101th Battalion, Ericka and others too, Mayumi is old good friend of Kyoko, her treatment reveals good friendship, like calling her: Kyoko nee (short for Onee sama) and using her name instead family name like Chiba elder son did.
c. Its not clear how much info Koichi have about Tats, but if you ask, the best moment to take out Tats (eliminate or give bad rep) its when nobody know he is an Strategic Class and responsible for Okinawa and Scorched Halloween Asian Alliance defeats, in the moment come to Public, nobody will be able touch Tats and Yotsuba without strong repression or even elimination and the outcast of the Clan, in other words: right now "nobody" (Public opinion) knows his existence, once come public its like touching invaluable asset, some lines give the impression Koichi sudden moves its cuz once Tats come public, Yotsuba will be public held 2nd Strategic Class magician, enforcing their current status and magic power plus the fact cannot be touched or link to any internal treat or the perpetrators will receive public condemn.

BTW: Koichi knows Tats/Miyuki are Yotsuba, just read when he told Retsu about 101th connection with 4th Clan.

Offline Vampirecat

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3632 on: February 23, 2013, 11:11:53 AM »
On further thought, only Katsuto knows about his membership in 101. The others you mentioned only know that he's secret military. Recall that Kazama didn't divulge his unit to them.

Oh, yeah. That's right. All that was revealed to the others was that Tatsuya was a Special Lieutenant in some hush-hush military group.

First part of a new school year and another attack by an anti-magic faction. Deja vu, anyone?

Considering how extensive the influence of Blanche was reported to be, it would unrealistic for them to give up, just like that. And Blanche is just one of the Anti-Magic factions, right? But yeah, it's like a rerun, this time with Shippou playing the role of anti-establishment sock puppet.  :am:

In any case, Koichi's plan to expose Tatsuya all rides on the assault of the anti-magic faction being able to force him to use his abilities in public before many witnesses. So if Tatsuya can put down the attack without using his abilities, then Koichi's screwed since he allowed an attack by an anti-magic faction on civilians and students. He would also get into trouble with the government for attempting to expose their unregistered Strategic-class asset.

Koichi is probably also unaware of how much support Tatsuya has in First High, and how highly Mayumi esteems Tatsuya. If something happens to Tatsuya because of Koichi's machinations, I wonder how Mayumi will take it?

Offline henzaeroz

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3631 on: February 23, 2013, 11:02:27 AM »
He would also get into trouble with the government for attempting to expose their unregistered Strategic-class asset.

Quote (selected)
Koichi revealed he plans to use the USNA to weaken the Yotsuba, that particular Clan has become too powerful, far superior to the rest of the Ten Clans and can dictate the fate of their nation if they wished to

so it's true that Yotsuba can dictate the fate of their nation if they wished to   :wahaha:   :wahaha:

Offline geniuspaus

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Re: Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei vol.01-08+
« Reply #3630 on: February 23, 2013, 10:59:01 AM »
In any case, Koichi's plan to expose Tatsuya all rides on the assault of the anti-magic faction being able to force him to use his abilities in public before many witnesses. So if Tatsuya can put down the attack without using his abilities, then Koichi's screwed since he allowed an attack by an anti-magic faction on civilians and students. He would also get into trouble with the government for attempting to expose their unregistered Strategic-class asset.

Koichi is likely unaware that Tatsuya is the unregistered Strategic-class magician that nuked China. He is also most definitely unaware that Tatsuya possesses Elemental Sight, which will prove useful in foreseeing any surprise attacks and allow him to get into a more favorable position.

You forgot that the Ten Clan is above the military and the government, all he is worried about is that the Yotsuba is getting ahead of them. The same worry Kudou have, also the reason Kudou didn't opposed the plan.

Let the clan war begin!!!
 :XD:

ps: I feel sorry for Tats, it seems everyone is after his head, China, USNA, Yotsuba, Shippou and now Saegusa...