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Author Topic: The Heart of Martial Arts  (Read 56505 times)

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wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2008, 06:21:12 PM »
Ken-chaaaan!! :yoyo: I also wanted to use this monkey :D !

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #89 on: August 07, 2008, 07:59:21 AM »
Don’t worry my friend. Even if I wont find it I will just translate everything again. Sure it will take some time but I will do it.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #88 on: August 07, 2008, 07:25:04 AM »
But if you got yakuza tattoos the delinquents won't fuck with you xD

Well tell me when you're going to Japan, so I can get my hopes up for a bigger disappointment =D !

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #87 on: August 07, 2008, 07:17:32 AM »
Delinquents are real problem in Japan. I had already a lot of encounters with them. Fighting against them (crowd) is always hard. Even if you take down some their friends still will be able to get you (from behind). Best choice would be few quick punches and than strategic retreat (sometimes it is possible to find good place where you ca defend yourself even against crowd). If I use my beloved tonfa (nearly always with me) and have god place which at least allows me not to worry about behind attacks I can take down a lot of attackers. But usually if they start to mess up somewhere in neighbourhood I just call my friends from dojo. Without 10 versus 1 balance they are nothing to worry about.

About Keiji. Sry I couldn’t find it. But I think that I still have it. Right place is probably my room in Japan. I think that I wont stay in German more than for  two or three weeks and than I will be able to tell if I was right or not

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #86 on: August 07, 2008, 07:09:06 AM »
Then just show them your yakuza tattoo or your .45 .50

Offline Gyfrex

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #85 on: August 07, 2008, 07:03:11 AM »
Slight problem with your theory, A: muggers rarely work alone, usually in groups from 3-12 or so, thusly punching one in the face WILL get you killed, also it means theres a lot of witnesses =P

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #84 on: August 07, 2008, 06:57:38 AM »
Then you can hit him in the face and get lost, doubt anyone would go to cops for something like that. And he'd never win that.

Offline Gyfrex

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2008, 06:41:23 AM »
The only time anyones ever tried to mug me was in the middle of the day =/

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #82 on: August 07, 2008, 06:31:29 AM »
I just said that you only need to beat the guy up enough to get away. And it's usually pretty dark, no way they'd find you. And many people beat people up for fun, and they don't get caught that easily even though they're not that hard to find.

Offline Gyfrex

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #81 on: August 07, 2008, 06:08:06 AM »
Its not 1%, not in the UK anyway, forensics these days are insane. Also if you kick their ass, 9 out of 10 times they'll go to the police, over here at least. Also breaking bones is considered excessive force unless they are physically trying to kill you (with intent, not just randomly swinging a knife ¬_¬), you have to restrain them not hurt them. Unfortunate, but true.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #80 on: August 07, 2008, 04:11:08 AM »
There's 1% change that they find you, and still it's his word against yours, and only beating him enough to get a way, so there wouldn't be that much broken bones or anything, and usually the guys who attack people doesn't look really that innocent which would help his story.

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2008, 12:08:25 PM »
Usually people don't attack you in clear daylight when there's many people around. And the guy? Usually people like that wouldn't go to police. And how would he find you anyways?

By going to the police and saying, "Some dude just beat me for no reason" this is followed by the attacker giving the police a description of you. Then when you are found and confronted with this story of how you beat the guy and when you you tell yours you are the bad guy because the attacker got beat up.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2008, 12:24:01 AM »
Usually people don't attack you in clear daylight when there's many people around. And the guy? Usually people like that wouldn't go to police. And how would he find you anyways?

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2008, 11:18:56 PM »
No proving, no nothing. Just kick his ass and leave. Who's gonna know?

The guy you just beat and the several witnesses nearby

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2008, 11:14:17 PM »
No proving, no nothing. Just kick his ass and leave. Who's gonna know?

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2008, 11:11:13 PM »
The best thing to do when someone attack you is simply kicking his ass and leaving right away.

Just remember to prove that you HAD to kick his ass to survive

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #74 on: August 01, 2008, 07:40:12 PM »
The best thing to do when someone attack you is simply kicking his ass and leaving right away.

Offline Gyfrex

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2008, 07:25:40 PM »
Chokes are the nicest most vague thing, "I wasn't choking him your honour, no, just merely putting him into a reversed headlock that uses my hands instead of my arm!"

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2008, 07:11:29 PM »
That's why you should know about the law. For example the choke I just described is legal in self defense situation. Law isn't perfect, there's always holes in it, you just need to find them.

Offline Gyfrex

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2008, 07:39:47 AM »
Self defence laws are very vague unfotunately. There were cases in Britain were people defending themselves went to jail instead of the original assailant because they used too much force (Personally I think, if the guys got a knife, and tries to use it, his life is fair game, but apparantly the law doesn't agree with me =/)

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2008, 07:22:43 AM »
Choking while the guys other arm in between your arm and his throat it's classified as self-defense if the guy attacked you first. And it chokes just as effectively and then you have better control over him.

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2008, 05:54:40 AM »
It's even worse if you have wounded the guy with a knife.

Yesh! Welcome!!

True legally a knife is counted as lethal force which makes you the bad guy in the eyes of the law. on a side note choking also counts as lethal force wich. Legally you can use lethal force if lethal force is applied to you.

On a second side note the knife is my favorite weapon because it is efficient and training with it can increase a persons efficiency which is something i desperately need.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2008, 04:02:42 AM »
It's even worse if you have wounded the guy with a knife.

Yesh! Welcome!!

Offline Gyfrex

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2008, 03:25:34 AM »
I'd like to sign up please ^^

Style(s) practiced:
- The style I'm currently learning is Choi Kwang Do, its an evolution of Tae Kwon Do with similar principles but redesigned techniques to minimise self damage (years of training in TKD can mess your joints up pretty bad =/), and maximise effectiveness. Currently sitting at Blue belt in this art, will be at black belt by march.

- I've also practiced:
     - Kyokushin Karate (green belt)
     - Aikido  (Taught the basics by my Karate teacher and self taught some of the other more high level moves)
     - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (Never did this in ranking system, practiced for a while, but messed up my knee and had to stop)
     - A Couple of the animal styles (snake and crane - couldn't get hang of them.)
     - Kendo and Iaido (my true loves, never done rankings in either, but have been practicing for many years)

Why I want to join:
- Would be nice to talk to other people who do martial arts outside my school

Favourite Style and Weapon:
- Iaido and evidently the Katana (I personally use a mid length blade and constantly get yelled at for using it one handed =/)

What do I think is the true purpose of Martial Arts?:
- I'm not a romantic, in modern times Martial Arts are there so that you can defend yourself, or hurt someone before they can hurt you. In times now long past, they certainly had a major role in society, sadly those times are gone.


wathiroth

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Bajiquan
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2008, 02:21:06 AM »
Bajiquan



Bājíquán (traditional Chinese: 八極拳; pinyin: Bājíquán; literally "eight extremes fist"; Japanese: 八極拳, Hakkyokuken) is a Chinese martial art that features explosive, short range power and is famous for its elbow strikes. It originated in Hebei Province in Northern China, but is also well-known in other places today, especially Taiwan.

Origins
Bajiquan was originally called Baziquan (巴子拳 or 鈀子拳; literally "rake fist"), due to the fact that when not striking, the fist is held loosely and slightly open, resembling a rake, and also the art from involves many downward strike moves, just like a rake's movement in the field. However, the name was considered to be rather crude sounding in its native tongue, so it was changed to the title Bajiquan. The term baji, which comes from the oldest book in China, the I Ching, signifies "an extension of all directions." In this case, it means "including everything" or "the universe."

The first recorded teacher was Wu Zhong 吴钟(1712-1802). Famous teachers that promoted the style included Wu Xiu Feng 吴秀峰, Li Shu Wen 李书文 (1864-1934), (Cangzhou, Hebei, very skillful with the spear that earned him the nickname "God of Spear Li."). A Peking Opera Wu Shen (Martial Male Character) by training, he was foremost in his Kung Fu Basic trainings. His most famous quote about fighting was, "I do not know what it's like to hit a man twice." Li Shuwen's most famous students include Huo Dian Ge 霍殿阁 (bodyguard to Pu Yi, the last Emperor of China), Li Chenwu (bodyguard to Mao Zedong), and Liu Yun Qiao 刘云樵 (secret agent for the nationalist Kuomintang and instructor of the bodyguards of Chiang Kai Shek - Generalissimo of the national government of the Republic of China (ROC) from 1928 until his death in 1975). Because of this, Bajiquan has come to be known as "The Bodyguard Style". Ma Feng Tu 马凤图 and Ma Yin Tu 马英图 introduced Ba Ji fist into central/nan jing kuo shu guan 南京国术馆 (central Chinese Martial Arts Academy). It was a required practice for all students there. (ref:Ba Zi Jie Xi: a talk on rake fist 耙子解析)

Bajiquan shares roots with another Hebei martial art, Piguazhang. It is said that Wu Zhong, the oldest traceable lineage holder in the Bajiquan lineage, taught both arts together as an integrated fighting system. They then slowly split apart, only to be remarried by Li Shuwen in the late 18th to early 19th century. As a testament to the complementary nature of these two styles, there is a Chinese martial arts proverb that goes: "When pigua is added to baji, gods and demons will all be terrified. When baji is added to pigua, heroes will sigh knowing they are no match against it." (八極參劈掛,神鬼都害怕。劈掛參八極,英雄嘆莫及)

Today, the lineage holder of Bajiquan in China is Wu Lian Zhi 吴连枝. He is also the prototype of Akira Yuki of Virtua Fighter fame. Through more than 50 years of training, he collected much material and records which were passed down from generation to generation.

Features

Tactics and stragedy:

Ba Ji fist is known to open the opponent's door/arms forcibly or Qiang Kai Men 强开门 and mount attacks at high, mid, and low levels of the body or San Pan Lian Ji 三盘连击. Thus the style is also called Kai Men Ba Ji Quan 开门八极拳.

Most Chinese Kung Fu styles have their own fighting forté. Bajiquan is generally used in close combat. With this concept, Bajiquan pays much attention to elbow, knee, shoulder and hip strikes. When blocking an attack or nearing an opponent, Bajiquan techniques emphasize striking major points of vulnerability, the thorax (trunk of the body) and roots (legs and neck).

Six big ways of opening door or Liu Da Kai 六大开:

1. Ding 顶: using the fist, elbow, shoulder etc to push forward and upward.

2. Bao 抱: putting 2 arms together as if hugging someone. It is usually followed by Pi 劈.

3. Ti 提: elevating the knee to hit the thigh of the opponent, or elevating the foot to hit the shin of the opponent etc.

4. Dan 单: using a single move.

5. Kua 胯: using the hip.

6. Chan 缠: entanglement with rotation around the wrist, elbow and shoulder etc

(ref: The Treasure Book of Chinese Martial Arts, Volume 1)

Stepping and Body Methods:

Footwork in Bajiquan is simple compromising of three special features: Zhen Jiao, Nian Bu and Chuang Bu. These striking techniques are closely related to ancient Chinese medicine, which states that all parts of the body are directly connected, either physically or spiritually.

Open Hand Forms and Weapons:

The forms of Baji are divided into Fist (non-weapon) and Weapon forms. There are 20 fist forms. Some of these include: 12 Baji Small Structure Fists, Baji Black Tiger Fist, Baji Dan Zhai, Baji Dan Da/Dui Da, Baji Luo Han Gong, and Baji Si Lang Kuan. In Weapon forms, there are eight different kinds of weapons, including the very famous Liu He Da Qiang (spear), Liu He Hua Qiang (spear), Chun Yang Jian (sword), San Yin Dao (sabre), Xing Zhe Bang (staff), Pudao, and Chun Qiu Da Dao (long two-handed heavy blade, used by Generals sitting on their horses).

Power Generation and Expression Methods:

The major features of this school of Chinese martial arts include elbow strikes, arm/fist bashes, hip checks, and strikes with the shoulder. All techniques are executed with a very distinctive form of short power, developed through rigorous training; in Chinese martial arts, Baji is famous for its very violent and fast movements. Strategically, Baji focuses on in-fighting, entering from a longer range with Baji's distinctive charging step ("zhen jiao") and issuing power up close.

The essence of Bajiquan lies in jin, or power-issuing methods, particularly fajin (explosive power). The style contains a total of six types of jin, eight different ways to hit and several different principles of power usage. Unlike most western forms of martial arts which require swinging motion to create momentum, most of Bajiquan's moves utilize a one-hit push-strike method from very close range. The bulk of the damage is dealt through the momentary acceleration that travels up from the waist to the limb and further magnified by the charging step known as zhen jiao.

The mechanics of jin are developed through many years of practice and Bajiquan is known for its particularly strenuous lower-body training and its emphasis on the horse stance. Its horse stance is higher than that of typical Long Fist styles. Like other styles, there is also "the arrow-bow stance", "the one-leg stance", "the empty stance" (xūbù 虚步), "the drop stance" (pūbù 仆步) , etc. There are eight different poses of hands, plus different types of breathing and zhen jiao.

Six Major Characteristic Powers:

1. Sinking (Xia Chen 下沉 or Chen Zhui 沉坠) 2. Thrusting (Chong 冲) 3. Extending (Cheng 撑) 4. Entangling (Chan 缠) 5. Cross (Shi Zi 十字) 6. Inch (Cun 寸)

(ref: The Treasure Book of Chinese Martial Arts, Volume 2)

Influences

There may not be that many styles in kung fu that resemble Bajiquan. The Baji style focuses on being more direct, culminating and powerful, fast strikes that will render an opponent unable to continue. Even so, there are some styles that have derived by using Baji Quan’s main principles or concepts on how to hit your opponent:

    * "Bashi" (Eight postures)
    * "Bashi Gong" (Eight movements method)
    * "Bashi Chui" (Eight striking Forms)
    * "Shuang Bashi" (Double Eight Postures),
    * "Jingang Bashi" (Eight postures of the Buddha Guards.)
    * "Longxing Bashi" (Eight postures of the Dragon Style).

Many of these forms are also based or mixed with Luohan Quan, a Shaolin style. The term Bashi Pashi may also refer to Baji. But it can also be noted that Bashi is also a term used in the style of Xingyi Quan.

Bruce Lee, along with many of his contemporaries, studied styles like Bajiquan. Along with his training of wing chun, Lee incorporated useful moves from other styles, including Bajiquan.



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Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2008, 01:32:51 AM »
Still you shouldn't carry knife. And it's also better to break his nose and arm, than to cut his tendons.

If i break his nose and arms then i am the bad guy i terms of the law. thus it is best to disable his temporally then run like hell wants to get you

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2008, 01:20:41 AM »
Still you shouldn't carry knife. And it's also better to break his nose and arm, than to cut his tendons.

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2008, 12:19:54 AM »
Actually its all a matter of how you cut the attacker. It is more believable that you cut the tendons in the arm  and the back of the leg that it is self defense rather then cutting open his gut stabbing his lungs then say it was self defense

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2008, 10:37:15 PM »
To make it point at him? No way. The first thing is to lock his wrist and hurt him, then get the knife away from him. And you shouldn't carry knife. If you have a knife you'd need to be prepared to use it, and if you use it you'll most likely go to jail, no matter how "self-defense" you might have used it. Also, if cops see you have a knife, they need you to prove that you need it in your job.

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2008, 07:20:31 AM »
I'm pretty sure it would be the bad guy with the knife. Also, the person who's being pointed by the knife would often be a lot more dangerous than normally. And I do mean normal people usually, not everyone every time.

As I said before pointy thing points to bad guy. If he has the knife then you make it point at him.

I am also pretty sure that it is a good thing to have a knife with you. If anyeone asks why you have it say it is a tool.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2008, 08:14:11 PM »
I'm pretty sure it would be the bad guy with the knife. Also, the person who's being pointed by the knife would often be a lot more dangerous than normally. And I do mean normal people usually, not everyone every time.

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2008, 11:04:42 AM »
Also, when a person has a weapon, the other person who doesn't have one, will be just as dangerous as the one who has the weapon. When you are pointing a sword at someones throat, you're also pointing it at yourself.

Are you sure? Because It should be pointy thing pointing at bad guy and no where else.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2008, 05:45:35 AM »
Then apply, stay active and tell you what martial arts do you train?

Offline jillybeans

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2008, 05:10:04 AM »
yay martial arts!
i didnt read the whole speech but i saw martial arts and it got me interested :p

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2008, 11:00:51 PM »
I just meant that you should be prepared if you're gonna use weapons. I'm bad at explaining things.

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2008, 09:55:29 PM »
Also, when a person has a weapon, the other person who doesn't have one, will be just as dangerous as the one who has the weapon. When you are pointing a sword at someones throat, you're also pointing it at yourself.

I think it is right opinion in most cases but fighting ability level is very important too.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2008, 09:29:05 PM »
Also, when a person has a weapon, the other person who doesn't have one, will be just as dangerous as the one who has the weapon. When you are pointing a sword at someones throat, you're also pointing it at yourself.

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2008, 01:21:43 AM »
What martial arts do you practice?

I practice more of a blend of sorts. A sogo budo to be exact. This means I practice with concepts and tactics from many different martial arts wich is nice because I think in concepts.

I think I did another bad job at explaining something.


Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2008, 08:03:17 PM »
I didn't say that it's useless. I was just stating the point that inexperienced people with weapons = very bad combination.

Sorry I got it wrong.

Inexperienced people should better forget using weapons at all.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2008, 07:56:45 PM »
I didn't say that it's useless. I was just stating the point that inexperienced people with weapons = very bad combination.

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2008, 07:52:55 PM »
An opponent with knife isn't that hard, since you only need to concentrate on the knife. Since when most people have weapon, they can only use that weapon and nothing else. Just redirect the knife, catch the hand, lock the wrist, and hit the guy is the face. Then disarm, and finish.

Of course there's a risk, since knife is still a knife.

I don’t think that Knife is that useless. You just need to use that right. But for real fight I would always take my beloved Tonfa. For me it is greatest weapon + not that many problem with police.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2008, 07:42:00 PM »
An opponent with knife isn't that hard, since you only need to concentrate on the knife. Since when most people have weapon, they can only use that weapon and nothing else. Just redirect the knife, catch the hand, lock the wrist, and hit the guy is the face. Then disarm, and finish.

Of course there's a risk, since knife is still a knife.

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2008, 07:39:04 PM »
Knife is nice weapon. I sometimes try to practice with two knives.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2008, 07:36:10 PM »
Welcome!

What martial arts do you practice?

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2008, 07:24:55 PM »
Yes a martial arts club. I will join

Why do you wanna join? I want to join because I need intellegent conversation about martial arts.

Do you practice martial arts YES!!!! I practice with both empty hands and weapons

What’s your favorite style and weapon? Favorite style... have none. Favorite weapon knife

What do you think is true purpose of martial arts? The true purpose of martial arts is whatever you need it for at any point in time. Or varies from individual to individual depending on there needs.

Welcome to Martial Arts Club.

Wonderful now we have 5 members.

Offline Faolin

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2008, 12:00:08 PM »
Yes a martial arts club. I will join

Why do you wanna join? I want to join because I need intellegent conversation about martial arts.

Do you practice martial arts YES!!!! I practice with both empty hands and weapons

What’s your favorite style and weapon? Favorite style... have none. Favorite weapon knife

What do you think is true purpose of martial arts? The true purpose of martial arts is whatever you need it for at any point in time. Or varies from individual to individual depending on there needs.

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2008, 06:20:41 AM »
Yesh! It sure is :phone:

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2008, 06:13:28 AM »
It is good thing to have moderator as accomplice :hahaha:

wathiroth

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2008, 05:53:08 AM »
Hmm... I wonder, who does martial arts. Well, when we get this club fixed up, I'll make us official club anyways xD

Offline Kenichi

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Re: Martial Arts Club!
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2008, 05:48:41 AM »
See! I told you she'll join :lovely:

You were right. Now we need only one more member.